Why does everyone
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gabste — 9 years ago(December 11, 2016 11:21 AM)
Stannis was the most complex character of the show.
He was the rightful heir to the throne, as Ned Stark defended to his death.
Many watchers of the show liked his Gothic appearance and his drive to regain his throne.
He was the only character brave enough to attack Kings Landing or fight at Winterfell in the middle of a brutal winter.
A witch found Stannis thinking he was Azar Ahai and made Stannis believe in her religion which he used as part of his arsenal
He was the only character who realized that the white walkers are a total threat to the human race and the entire Westeros and was willing to do something about it.
He killed his brother and daughter.
He did all to save the realm and retain his Kingship.
Stannis was portrayed by one of our greatest British living stage and film actors.
There wasn't one character who was like this or more interesting on the show.
"Today's avatar is brought to you by the movie 'The 44" Chest'
" -
gabste — 9 years ago(December 11, 2016 11:25 AM)
Thank you. I missed seeing Stannis appear on the show in season 6. I looked so forward to his scenes. You never knew what he was going to do next. He was so extreme and fascinating.
"Today's avatar is brought to you by the movie 'The 44" Chest'
" -
A-Game-Of-Dinklage — 9 years ago(December 11, 2016 11:48 AM)
I missed him too, he added so much to the show honestly. I felt the same with Robb in Season 4, it was just not the same show without him.
We are in it together Gabste, we have both lost our kings.
I'm entirely sure that you're entirely sure what I'm implying. -
otter — 9 years ago(December 12, 2016 12:13 AM)
I hope you can tell me more about the love for Stannis, because I still don't understand it. Even though he was the rightful king and was correct to claim the throne, and was willing to help out the NW when nobody else would, I still loathe him and think he would have been such a godawful king that he might actually have been a worse ruler than Joffrey!
Sure, he's in the right when it came to the question of kingship, but his fatal weakness is an inability to see other people's points of view, or any side of an argument other than his own. This is not a man who could understand complex questions well enough to rule, he was a man who will always insist that he's right, and will only get angry and punish you if you try to help him understand something - anything. Of course someone who can't see other people's POV and has a total lack of compassion is going to make a piss-poor king, and I'm serious when I say that he might be worse than Joffrey.
Joffrey was horrible but he was willing to leave the actual ruling in the hands of competent people, Stannis would spent his time in office making bad decision after bad decision and going to war against anyone who pointed out that his decisions were, in fact, bed.
Seventy-seven courses and a regicide, never a wedding like it! -
Leo_ofRedKeep — 9 years ago(December 12, 2016 01:00 AM)
I hope you can tell me more about the love for Stannis, because I still don't understand it.
It surprised people, just like the love for Arya or the hate for Sam did.
It shouldnt have, though. Stannis was a hard just man; this always attracts to some extent. He had the apparent support of the law (although not in spirit), and he was a fighter who led his own troops from the front line, which gained him further fans. Then he was the one who took the threat of the White Walkers seriously and decided to help do something against it as well as go against the Boltons, whom Stark fans hated.
At last, he was a man of determinism, essentially opposed to the idea of free choice and negotiation. It may not be a commonly exposed idea but I think there is
a hard divide
between the wish to see things follow some deterministic logic, which is the basis for the acceptance of religions or strong social structures, be they egalitarian or hierarchy-based, and the wish to have people find their own ways and make their own decisions based on individually perceived self-interest, which is essentially the idea of a free market.
Stannis was in the lower half of the Nolan chart (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolan_Chart
), a place which appeals to many more people than one would think, especially those who call themselves liberal without understanding what the word means or implies, expecting others to be forced to grant them liberties or even come up for them.
Long may she reign
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otter — 9 years ago(December 12, 2016 04:34 AM)
Stannis was a hard man, but he wasn't just. Yes, he was correct about being the rightful king, but that doesn't give him any understanding of justice. He treated his supporters with great injustice - remember him in exile on Dragonstone, burning his ministers alive for disagreeing with him and jailing Davos for saving a kid from being burned alive?
Some people can't tell the difference between a man who is right a couple of times, and a man who has a real sense of ethics, or can understand the real-world consequences of his actions. He's a man says "I am the rightful king", and would never even think "What is right for the kingdom?", and would never ask whether making war on Joffrey would serve any greater good, or benefit anyone but himself. Like I said below, on Dragonstone he treated his subordinates horribly, burning them alive for little or no reason, and totally failing to understand that this was 1) just plain wrong, and 2) a great way to keep any new followers from joining his cause. He had no more sense of what is expedient than what is actually right.
No, the man wasn't intelligent, and he definitely wasn't just.
Seventy-seven courses and a regicide, never a wedding like it! -
gabste — 9 years ago(December 12, 2016 01:05 AM)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10944947/board/thread/264048849?d=264063529#264063529
Stannis was nothing like Joffrey. Joffrey was not likeable and killed for fun or for no reason. Stannis was trying all to regain the throne, with yes aggresion. Stannis would have been a strong King like most Kings.
war against anyone who pointed out that his decisions were, in fact,
bed
.
Gee that would have been nice
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" -
otter — 9 years ago(December 12, 2016 04:29 AM)
Of course Joffrey and Stannis are nothing alike, all they have in common is a lack of capacity to be good rulers! They'd both make bad rulers for very different reasons, but the end result in both cases would be tyranny and misery for the ruled.
Stannis wasn't strong, he was just inflexible, rigid, and obtuse. He couldn't see other people's points of view, understand his own limitations, or show mercy; and he dealt terribly harshly with anyone who displeased him. During his exile on Dragonstone island he had his own minions burned alive for disagreeing with him or trying to negotiate with his enemies, which isn't exactly the best way to attract new supporters, or fill the few you have left with enthusiasm! Stannis is a terrible manager, all he can do is insist he's right and punish anyone who disagrees with him, he can't convince or inspire anyone, even when he actually is right for once - like about being the rightful king.
And that's not even bringing the Red Goddism into it, that's another reason he would have been a truly terrible king. A man who can't see other people's perspectives isn't someone who can understand the benefits of freedom of religion, if Mel had succeeded in getting him on the throne he wouldn't see why he shouldn't burn all the Septs and Godswoods and anyone who stayed loyal to their old religion.
Seventy-seven courses and a regicide, never a wedding like it! -
gabste — 9 years ago(December 12, 2016 04:37 AM)
Robert was the true steel. Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He'll break before he bends. And Renly, that one, he's copper, bright and shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day.
George R.R. Martin, A Clash of Kings (A Song of Ice and Fire
Your opinion. The op wasn't asking about what kind of King he would have been. The op was asking why people liked him. I answered that question. The above quote shows that Martin never had the intention of Stannis ever getting to retain his throne.
"Today's avatar is brought to you by the movie 'The 44" Chest'
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otter — 9 years ago(December 12, 2016 04:48 AM)
Get used to hearing my opinion, hon, I've got a lot of it!
But seriously, how can one discuss Stannis's good points, or bad points, without wondering what kind of king he would have been? It was his major goal in life, and I for one am glad he never achieved it.
Seventy-seven courses and a regicide, never a wedding like it! -
gabste — 9 years ago(December 12, 2016 04:58 AM)
Ok !
I think you're missing his appeal. You must admit his quotes and mannerisms were likable. The 'grammar nazi' and the 'bend the knee' ! Everyone knew Stannis wasn't going to make it to the throne and that fascinated people in itself. People were happy he never achieved his goal, like yourself. How was he going to die ? What's this guy going to do next to try to regain his rightful throne ?! He was exciting to watch along the way whether you liked him or not. You may not of liked Stannis but you're still talking about him. Stannis was a dark gothic-medieval character with a black cape and that appealed to many, especially myself. Fascinating in every way.
"Today's avatar is brought to you by the movie 'The 44" Chest'
" -
otter — 9 years ago(December 12, 2016 03:34 PM)
"I think you're missing his appeal. You must admit his quotes and mannerisms were likable."
I admit nothing of the sort! To me, the only likeable moments were with Shireen, and look how that turned out.
No, to me, Stannis was always the embodiment of a personality type I instinctively distrust and dislike - someone who's all about authoritarianism without understanding. Beware of people who say that what's important is being obeyed, not the complex issues, because the issues ARE complex and someone who's only thinking about obedience is going to get everything wrong, as Stannis did. He's also going to hurt the people under his control, just to exercise the authority that's so important to him, and his followers are so much easier to hurt than his enemies.
So yeah, I consider him to be an excellent complex villain who was played by a very good actor, but really, Stannis was a horrible person and a damn fool. He only went to the Wall because his adviser misunderstood the visions in the flames, not because he genuinely understood the threat posed by the WW and was committed to saving Westeros. No, he wanted to be king, and Mel told him that the way to become king was to go north, so he went north.
Seventy-seven courses and a regicide, never a wedding like it! -
Leo_ofRedKeep — 9 years ago(December 12, 2016 03:42 PM)
No, he wanted to be king
Stannis never wanted anything. He did not value free will.
Long may she reign
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Nightman_Trumpeth — 9 years ago(December 11, 2016 03:15 PM)
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/99982-best-stannis-baratheon-quotes/
