I would really love an answer from our resident Christians…
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BoogieKnight — 16 years ago(January 22, 2010 02:41 AM)
"God equally hates homosexuality and divorce. I was not trying to say that divorce was any less of a sin than homosexuality is. I was trying to explain that I think Christians put more emphasis on one of them because the situation is different."
Different yet equally unacceptable Biblically. So although you are only speaking for yourself, surely you can admit based upon this, that a great number of other Christians are in fact complete hypocrites when it comes to comparing the implications of divorce and homosexuality. Right? Pretty simple question here, ofuoku71. -
AmericanGayAtheist — 15 years ago(September 18, 2010 12:45 PM)
They should. A sin is a sin. God equally hates homosexuality and divorce. I was not trying to say that divorce was any less of a sin than homosexuality is. I was trying to explain that I think Christians put more emphasis on one of them because the situation is different.
Yeah, only 10 % (or less by Christian standards) of the population are gay but 50% of heterosexuals want the OPTION to divorce if they are UNHAPPY (and there is no scripture that say UNHAPPY is a valid reason for a divorce - in fact the only reason given in the bible was adultery). But that's the difference; its not about scripture or religion or anything else, it is the difference of what the "majority" wants as opposed to a left over prejudice that cretins over 35 can't let go.
The constitution was created to protect US Citizens from "MOB" (Majority) rule. That is why denying gay marriage is wrong, it is being denied out of a religious "prejudice" and has nothing to do the civil and legal aspect of it!
The really great news is that in the under 35 crowd, they get it! Even if we don't get gay marriage, they will - it is just a matter of time.
I just wish I had more time so I can see it happen!
"Atheism is a 'Religion' sort of like NOT collecting stamps is a hobby!!!" -
anasamas — 15 years ago(July 10, 2010 04:10 AM)
You are a dishonest piece of filth.
The Westboro Baptist Church????
They don't represent Christians and they certainly don't speak for Baptists.
This is a fringe bunch of radical nutjobs that protest with their vulgar signs at the funerals of serviceman who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan.
They represent Christians like the Ku Klux Klan represents White people.
Whenever you make a dishonest argument like this, it makes your agenda look even more pathetic than it already is. It is this kind of crap that turns the public against you and is why Americans continue to be squarely against gay marriage. -
hadmatter — 15 years ago(July 10, 2010 10:00 AM)
Al never said or implied that the Westboro Baptist Church represented Christianity in general, and your attempt to vilify him with this implication is just as pathetic as the behavior of which you're accusing him (behavior which, for the record, did not actually occur).
Of
course
Fred Phelps is a radical fringe nutjob, but he also has a huge number of vocal supporters (and, one might imagine, a fair number who agree with him but are smart enough to keep rather quiet about it).
Exactly what was "dishonest" about referring to Fred Phelps (a real man with a real, hateful, anti-gay agenda)? What was "dishonest" about supplying a
direct quote
from one of his supporters? What was dishonest about asking a valid question regarding what appears to be, at least from the perspective of an outsider, a fundamental Christian hypocrisy?
So you think that gay people wanting the right to marry is a "pathetic agenda". Fine. But your disgusting accusation that you and "the public" would turn against us because of something like
this
? That is the truly pathetic behavior on this thread.
Here's what it looks like to me. You're fully aware that the Christian obsession with homosexuals
cannot
be reconciled, biblically, with their general refusal to take exception to divorce. Rather than be forced to answer that hypocrisy, you manufacture a false offense - this
fiction
that Al accused all Christians of being like Phelps - and then blame homosexuals for
your
hatred of them.
Wrong.
You're "squarely against gay marriage" because you don't like gay people. You justify your personal dislike for gay people by using the bible. And you ignore other rules in the bible because they're not convenient to you.
Which is
exactly
the point that Al was making in the first place. Congratulations, you've demonstrated the precise hypocrisy he was trying to bring to light.
I am the sod-off shotgun. -
anasamas — 15 years ago(July 10, 2010 07:54 PM)
I'm not going to restate my position. It's all been done before.
'Almost' doesn't count. I don't see a federal law allowing this craziness in the near future. Once you convince the brain deads that rights you have never had are being 'taken away', you might get it.
I'm not going to relive past debates but every time interracial marriage, womens' rights, civil rights, court precedent, the 'homophobe' and "intolerance' name calling is brought up, you immediately lose the argument. None of this is germaine and/or true. Hadmatter told a lie about me hating gays. He also lied saying I was using the bible and religion in my comments. Also lies. This is how you do business. You don't HAVE an argument. It is based entirely on your own selfish demands and hope.
I'm not 'afraid' of further debate. You have nothing new and our side has won each time. As far as 'court cases' are concerned, when you win at the Supreme Court, the place you lost 39 years ago, you will have succeeeded in 'winning'.
It certainly could happen one day, so good luck. -
anasamas — 15 years ago(July 11, 2010 10:55 PM)
There's no 'pressure'. I've engaged in these so-called arguments with the pro-gay marriage side as have many others. You always come out on the short side because as I stated, you don't have a valid agument. It is just something that you want and hope for. Been there, done that. I illustrated how hadmatter told three lies in that one post about me and you misdirected the conversation to the Prop 8 proponents. Stefan, you're absolutely full of sh-t. You're living a delusional life.
You just keep on believing that you're as normal as the rest of us and that you have every 'right' to be married. Keep on believing that Baker v. Nelson isn't the controlling federal precedent on this issue. Meanwhile, the United States refuses to recognize this folly as 'marriage' as does most of the world. Keep hoping, wishing, and wanting. I'll keep laughing at your baseless
'arguments' and you can go waste your time trying to convince someone else.
So long, chump. -
ThatsWayHarsh-Tai — 12 years ago(April 11, 2013 12:23 AM)
I think you are confused.
Human beings are born with the 'right' to be human beings. To live and love and exist as they see fit the ONLY other 'right' - we, as a people are entitled to, is the right to live free from harm from our fellow man.
The state does not, our rights as human beings, make.
So, yes -
according to being born- we
all
deserve these fundamental 'rights' and -
according to being born - when one isn't allowed to pursue these "
GOD-GIVEN
" rights,
they are having something, which is inherently human, taken away from them.
I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand.
You're really into Jesus, and Jesus was really into this
whole concept
. Tolerance, acceptance, compassion, forgiveness, humility
At least, this is what I'm told. Judging from the words/behaviours of many of his so-called 'disciples', I believe HE has been let down.
I find it sad that a 'message' that was supposed to represent goodness and purity of heart, is (consistently even, historically speaking) used as tool of oppression, hatred, and as a conduit to the ugliest parts of mankind's soul.
- we
-
anasamas — 15 years ago(July 10, 2010 08:25 PM)
You're right; I misspoke. Have to admit I saw 'Westboro Baptist Church', scanned the post, saw the usual rhetoric and thought he was speaking about just them. He even mentions their funeral antics in the lead paragraph! My bad. I apologize to Al for my remarks re: this.
Now to the rest of your post, hadmatter.
It is my belief that the public isn't coming around on gay marriage for a number of reasons and much of it has to do with the way this has been presented. Most of it is based on half-truths, outright lies, and a demand for phantom 'rights' that do not exist. This has been discussed before at length and I'm not going to get involved in that again. It's just so easy to pick your arguments apart. I've done it on several boards and so have others. You don't have a leg to stand on so you play the 'equal rights' card. It's become boring because you guys lose the debate every time.
The reason I am against gay marriage has nothing to do with liking or disliking gays. It has to do with good old fashioned common sense. I happen to like most of the gay people I interact with on a regular basis. I'd even go so far as to say I like a larger percentage of them than heteros. They tend to be nicer, less aggressive, and share my love for animals.
'You justify your personal dislike for gay people by using the bible. And you ignore other rules in the bible because they're not convenient to you.'
This is one of those outright lies that I just spoke of. I never stated that religion or the bible have anything to do with my position on gay marriage. You just made that up. I happen to be agnostic. Thanks for proving my point. -
hadmatter — 15 years ago(July 12, 2010 09:54 AM)
You don't have a leg to stand on so you play the 'equal rights' card. It's become boring because you guys lose the debate every time.
Not really. "Equal rights" is winning us this debate, and it's not taking any longer than we expected.
The reason I am against gay marriage has nothing to do with liking or disliking gays. It has to do with good old fashioned common sense.
And you call
me
a liar?
There is no "common sense" reason for a person to be opposed to gay marriage, because unless you're gay and want to get married, it has no effect on you at all. If you can demonstrate how gay marriage will negatively impact you, then perhaps you'll have an argument, but you clearly can't.
This is one of those outright lies that I just spoke of. I never stated that religion or the bible have anything to do with my position on gay marriage. You just made that up. I happen to be agnostic. Thanks for proving my point.
For me to be telling a lie, you'd actually have to prove that I knew I wasn't telling the truth. When you come in preaching against gay marriage and defending baptists, one can only draw a conclusion from context.
I am the sod-off shotgun. -
anasamas — 15 years ago(July 12, 2010 02:04 PM)
Not really. "Equal rights" is winning us this debate, and it's not taking any longer than we expected.
Right. That's why gays still cannot marry in most of the U.S., and much of the world. You're as delusional as stefanwhatsizname.
You already have equal rights.
The laws apply to everyone. Adult men can marry adult women and vice-versa.
If you are a man, it would apply to you as well
There is no "common sense" reason for a person to be opposed to gay marriage, because unless you're gay and want to get married, it has no effect on you at all. If you can demonstrate how gay marriage will negatively impact you, then perhaps you'll have an argument, but you clearly can't.
LOL!! I love you guys. You live in a constant state of denial. This has nothing to do with a marriage making a direct impact on my life. It has everything to do with society endorsing a 'marriage' among two people of the same gender. It is absolutely ridiculous. When a union of two homosexuals can biologically produce a family, we'll talk. Until that happens, you sound like an idiot.
For me to be telling a lie, you'd actually have to prove that I knew I wasn't telling the truth. When you come in preaching against gay marriage and defending baptists, one can only draw a conclusion from context.
LOL!!!!! The only thing I stated was that Westboro doesn't represent Christians anymore than the KKK reps White people. You sat there and fired off three lies about me and now you throw out even more bullsh-t that these were "conclusions you drew from context". This is nothing more than the hateful rhetoric that you regularly manufacture when someone opposes gay marriage and is precisely why people are turned off by it. Since you have no basis for your position, this is the only tactic that remains; lies, personal attacks, and the victim card. And you wonder why people despise you and your silly agenda. -
hadmatter — 15 years ago(July 12, 2010 02:27 PM)
You already have equal rights.
The laws apply to everyone. Adult men can marry adult women and vice-versa.
If you are a man, it would apply to you as well
Wrong. Marriage is about a commitment between two people. You can marry the person you love. Until I can marry the consenting adult that I love, we do not have equal rights. End of story.
This has nothing to do with a marriage making a direct impact on my life. It has everything to do with society endorsing a 'marriage' among two people of the same gender. It is absolutely ridiculous. When a union of two homosexuals can biologically produce a family, we'll talk. Until that happens, you sound like an idiot.
As soon as you can prove that the purpose of marriage is to produce a family, we'll talk. Until that happens,
you
sound like an idiot, and every childless marriage must really get you hot under the collar.
And it has EVERYTHING to do with marriage making a direct impact on your life. If it doesn't, then your opinion on the matter is really quite meaningless.
That being said, if the federal government rescinds all special rights that are associated with marriage, then I'll consider us equal.
You sat there and fired off three lies about me and now you throw out even more bullsh-t that these were "conclusions you drew from context".
They were indeed. Can you prove otherwise?
This is nothing more than the hateful rhetoric that you regularly manufacture when someone opposes gay marriage and is precisely why people are turned off by it.
Oh, really? So nobody was opposed to gay marriage before? Nice try.
What
this
is, my ignorant friend, is the same hateful rhetoric that your type regularly employs. Wait until a supporter of gay rights says something you don't like, then tell them "that's why we're opposed to gay rights". You've already done that at least once in this thread.
Since you have no basis for your position
Other than "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"
lies, personal attacks, and the victim card.
More like "accurate deductions, deserved personal attacks, and the righteous position of a second class citizen whose rights are being infringed." But I guess that's just splitting hairs.
And you wonder why people despise you and your silly agenda.
No, I don't. It's because of religion and fear.
I am the sod-off shotgun. -
anasamas — 15 years ago(July 13, 2010 01:58 AM)
Your latest message is composed of more of the same tired gay radical rhetoric. Every one of your half-baked arguments has been destroyed many times over by myself as well as others on this board. Too bad you still haven't come up with a valid REASON why governments should sanction a 'marriage' between two people of the same gender. Just because you desire it, doesn't mean that the feds are obligated to make an exception in the law to accomodate YOUR lifestyle. You're not as special as you think. You're just another schmuck who happens to prefer men. One day when you grow up and come out of your prison of delusions you might understand.
I will make my final reply to your last statement.
I said 'and you wonder why people despise you and your silly agenda' and you replied, 'No, I don't. It's because of religion and fear'.
I always get a kick out of radical loons like you who say that people 'fear' gays. Why would anyone 'fear' about 2% of the population that is wired differently sexually? The only thing people 'fear' is the fact that we have to listen to homosexual nutjobs drone on about how they believe they have the right to marry each other! Certainly, SOME folks are opposed to your agenda because of their religious beliefs, but those are the more hardcore folks, the ones who refuse to use birth control, and of course, those whacky Mormons. Most of us understand biology and have learned in grade school that the anus isn't a reproductive organ. We know that 'gay marriage' is an oxymoron.
Anyway, I've had enough laughs at your expense for awhile. I'll check back in a year or so when you'll no doubt still beating the same tired drum and begging to be like everyone else when you clearly are not. -
hadmatter — 15 years ago(July 14, 2010 09:17 AM)
Your latest message is composed of more of the same tired gay radical rhetoric. Every one of your half-baked arguments has been destroyed many times over by myself as well as others on this board.
Whined about and denied, but never destroyed. You and your ilk seem to believe that merely disagreeing with someone counts as "winning".
Too bad you still haven't come up with a valid REASON why governments should sanction a 'marriage' between two people of the same gender.
Can you come up with a reason why a government should sanction a 'marriage' between two people of ANY gender?
As long as the government gives prizes to heterosexuals for being heterosexual, then we do
not
have equal rights. Either same-sex marriage should be legal, with all the same rights and rewards, or heterosexual marriage should come with NO ENDORSEMENT FROM THE GOVERNMENT.
I always get a kick out of radical loons like you who say that people 'fear' gays. Why would anyone 'fear' about 2% of the population that is wired differently sexually?
I don't know, scaredy-cat. You tell me.
Most of us understand biology and have learned in grade school that the anus isn't a reproductive organ. We know that 'gay marriage' is an oxymoron.
In spite of your denial, your argument is boiling down to a belief that marriage only exists for the purpose of reproduction. Which I can prove is untrue. Do you have any OTHER arguments, or is this the part where you run away because you've nothing else to say?
I am the sod-off shotgun.