sorry, Ivy
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ciocio-2 — 11 years ago(December 14, 2014 06:18 AM)
Why in the world would you think that, because someone feels benign and not outraged by an adult couple, raised as cousins, who have brought most of the little comfort in their lives to each other, and who can not and will not have biological children, that that means they'd think sex between an adult and a 14-year-old would be okay? A 14-year-old can not consent to that (no matter what she or he might say or feel). If a 14-year-old positively throws himself or herself at an adult, demanding sex, it would still be rape on the part of the adult, if he or she complied. That's an extremely different situation to two legal adults committing to each other.
This discussion reminds me of many about one of the best movies ever made, LONE STAR, by John Sayles. As they say at the end of that one, "Forget the Alamo." -
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mimosveta — 11 years ago(May 20, 2014 06:15 PM)
If you want to say that we are all conditioned by societal norms to be disgusted by the very notion of incest, you'd be right, that we are. But from logical standpoint the only problem of incest is potential to have kids which in their case is not an issue.
Rather than conditioning people in this way, wouldn't it be nice if everyone would simply butt out of other people's business which this relationship would fall into, not any of our business and we shouldn't really judge them, after all, not their fault
Anyone who has ever read any spoilers,
knows that
Winter Is Coming -
thisempty — 11 years ago(May 28, 2014 09:41 AM)
No children, no harm???? Seriously????
So brothers having sex is ok since the female can't get pregnant???
WTF is wrong with you people???
Sorry about my English! Even though i bet its better than your Portuguese
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joeykeo — 11 years ago(May 28, 2014 04:38 PM)
What I am trying to do is look at the reasoning and motivation of the characters in this particular example. It doesn't mean I think siblings should be in relationships with each other. It doesn't mean I would want to be in a relationship with my sibling.
In this instance I think being raised as cousins plays a big part in this. Obviously they realized that being cousins would have a lot of people disapproving which is why Ivy points out they are leaving and going where no one knows them. So being half siblings is even worse. I think every state has incest laws though they vary. It is always close blood relations (mother father brother sister). A lot of states include first cousins. However some laws for cousins and siblings are suspended as long as all parties are over 18.
Again. No one here is advocating for incest. But we are trying to understand the characters.
And actually yeah here is a real honest question. . . if they can't have children who are they hurting? It makes it a victimless crime.
Jo
Evil men do as they please but men who are good can only do as they are allowed. -
Humanophage — 11 years ago(June 02, 2014 01:00 PM)
I always thought the taboo was against any relatives. I mean, marrying your cousin is even banned in most states. It is widely regarded as freaky, and people often mock rural Americans for supposedly doing this.
It seems idiotic that somehow a cousin is perfectly fine, while a half-brother is OMG KILL IT WITH FIRE. I am saying this from the traditional point of view, because from the rational point of view it is even more inane. Not only they are not having children, but they never saw themselves as brother and sister*, and they already discarded a silly taboo, so why not discard another?- and they are half-siblings anyway
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scarlettbees-892-755764 — 11 years ago(June 02, 2014 01:35 PM)
It's the reality of the situation that makes it gross. How could you possibly see this person you once loved romantically and NOT think, "same fathersame fathersame father?"
Spew all the "logic" you want, it doesn't matter that they were raised believing something else, doesn't matter that there will be no children. The reality makes things entirely different and unsettling and not okay.
And if you DO think it's okay, I wouldn't call you progressive or tolerant. Id call you either deluded, a liar, or depraved. -
Humanophage — 11 years ago(June 02, 2014 09:57 PM)
How can you not think "same grandparents, same grandparents" about your cousin? I don't understand the massive difference. There is a clear taboo against marrying cousins; it is a clear case of incest.
As for the last point, it's the same train of thought I see from my anti-gay Russian countrymen on a daily basis. -
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Brogan21 — 11 years ago(June 14, 2014 07:13 PM)
They didn't know they were siblings. They didn't go into the relationship as brother and sister. You saw how pitiful Ivy's life was, especially after having cancer and losing her chance to have children. Charles was a decent person to her and a comfort when she needed it the most. They fell in love in the same way everyone does, unexpectedly.
Incest is a difficult matter. It isn't black and white. Had they grown up together as brother and sister and still decided to love each other, that is a completely different story. -
mrcibubur — 11 years ago(July 09, 2014 04:08 AM)
There are many people from around the world, regardless of their culture, custom and religion, who develop a relationship which the OP would consider 'gross' based on the western interpretation of incest.
Admittedly, I too, struggle to accept that a man or woman can or should have sexual relations with their own child but I struggle a whole lot less with that concept between cousins or brother and sister. Modern relations are very complicated.
we have seen throughout history that men have married their daughters, married their dead wife's sister or even developed relations with a step-child. As in the case I recall of Richard Field, friend of William Shakespeare, he benefitted by marrying the widow of his dead boss, nothing wrong with that it seems.
Draw a distinction perhaps between those indulging in 'gross' relations by having sexual relations and producing children and those who co-habit together, sleep together even but either do not have sexual relations or cannot fulfil the will of God to make a child because he is impotent or she is barren/infertile.
Ok, Ivy and Little Charles go off into the sunset and make their lives together in New York (City). Why on earth would they tell all and sundry about their horrid family and about the degree of their incestious relationship?
Extending that point further, if two people of the same sexual gender in certain countries can adopt children, then why not Ivy and Little Charles? Why should they be discriminated against?
Finally, I liked the song/melody Little Charles was singing to Ivy before he was interrupted. Did it have a conclusion? And what is the song in its entirety? The sweetest moment in the film for me without a doubt. -
jmhow — 10 years ago(April 24, 2015 11:59 AM)
Thanks for inadvertently pointing out how we all should look at the story behind the story and not judge people based on incomplete information.
Like many if not most here, I see nothing wrong with them being together.
www.freerice.com -
Stirchley — 10 years ago(August 12, 2015 11:56 AM)
I submit that everyone here who feels that Ivy and lil Charles should still be together despite the truth about them would be absolutely disgusted if they met them as a happy couple, thought they were the nicest people ever, then found out the truth later.
I'm all about live and let live. If it doesn't affect my life in any way, shape, or form, then I don't care.
