A sociopath or a psychopath?
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TastemasterAweemaway — 11 years ago(March 31, 2015 12:12 PM)
This thread helped me realize that Lou's apparent combination of Asperger's and Antisocial Personality Disorder is what I don't like about the movie. I just don't think those two are a realistic match. Then I found this (which certainly appeals to my confirmation bias):
While it is possible to be both an Asperger and a psychopath, it's highly unlikely, because Aspergers lack one major component needed for psycho/sociopathy, Cognitive Empathy.
There are 3 types of empathy:
(A) Cognitive Empathy - understanding the thoughts, motivations ect. of others'.
(B) Affective Empathy - sharing the love, pain, grief etc. of others'..what laymen call empathy.
(C) Empathic (or Empathetic) Concern - what laymen call sympathy.
Psycho/sociopaths have very strong Cognitive Empathy, without which they would not be able to manipulate their victims (one of their primary characteristics), but they have an almost complete lack of the other two. Aspergers are virtual polar opposites, being deficient in (A) but having little or no issue with (B) or (C). NB: Aspergers may display (B) and (C) differently due to a comorbid condition called Primary Alexithymia, but these emotions are still there.
Because most people do not know of or understand the dichotomy of empathy into these 3 very different forms, they draw parallels which just aren't there. A Psycho/Sociopath without Cognitive Empathy would be like a Jumbo Jet without wingssomething completely different entirely. Conversely, an Asperger with strong Cognitive Empathy would never receive an Asperger's diagnosis in the first place because they would simply not suffer the social deficits required for an Asperger's diagnosis. A very small percentage of Aspergers may be violent, but that still doesn't make them a psycho/sociopath. Even if an Asperger were to become a psycho/sociopath, it's unlikely they'd still meet the criteria to be called an Asperger, which would call into question them ever having truly been an Asperger in the first place.
source: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120206210304AASIdw2 -
jonathonwisnoski-856-217430 — 10 years ago(May 08, 2015 07:01 PM)
This really seems like an argument that is caught up in misconceptions.
People do not actually fall into categories like that. Medicine creates categories to try and add a little order to the chaos. These is nothing preventing a psychopath from not being very good at CE, for them it is just a learned skill they develop to survive, some will be better at it than others. Perhaps, it would differentiate him enough for him not be be labeled as a psychopath, but non empathy for hurting others does not rely on being an expert manipulator. -
nolanfan — 10 years ago(July 03, 2015 06:13 AM)
"People do not actually fall into categories like that. Medicine creates categories to try and add a little order to the chaos. "
That is an amazing statement with great insight. Are you in mental health? If not, you could have a bright career. It takes most years to come to the same conclusion. You can't cure the chaos, but stabilize. Again, bravo!!! This person wins the argument -
goo-goo-ga-ga — 10 years ago(April 13, 2015 11:02 PM)
Aspberger's and anti-social personality disorder are two very different things. It's an unfortunate misconception that people on the autism spectrum lack empathy. They don't. Their feelings are as profound as the average person's. They simply find social expression more challenging.
It's possible he has both. Psychopathy is a personality disorder while Aspberger's is a developmental disability. -
Lady_Elaine_Fairchild — 10 years ago(December 13, 2015 07:03 PM)
Hearing him talk to people, you think they're going to chuck him right out (like how he treated Nina!) - but they don't.
You are right in your last sentence IMO He does understand people-to a fault. He immediately sizes up their strengths and weaknesses and uses them to his advantage. Emotions just get in the way of that.
Is not right or wrong He was born that way.
As a renaissance chick, I paint, write, and sing loudly off-key. -
BenignPillows — 10 years ago(December 14, 2015 02:07 PM)
You are right in your last sentence IMO He does understand people-to a fault. He immediately sizes up their strengths and weaknesses and uses them to his advantage. Emotions just get in the way of that.
Yeah, that's why I went with psychopath instead of Asperger's.
I guess this is why they usually say (intelligent) psychopaths shouldn't be allowed into therapy - all they do is learn new ways to manipulate people.
"The best fairytale is one where you believe the people" -Irvin Kershner -
Silent_Bob01 — 10 years ago(April 06, 2015 08:23 AM)
Ugh. Don't go throwing around terms without understanding their meaning.
Schizophrenia is completely different from psychopathy. Schizophrenics are mentally ill and need to be treated with medication. Psychopaths are NOT mentally illthey're simply very dangerous personality types. -
Boni-The-Sock — 10 years ago(April 05, 2015 10:48 PM)
Some understand that the main difference between psychos and socios is that psychos can't control their urge to kill. Socios, on the other hand, don't feel this urge to kill, they just despise other human beings, and dislike most of human interactions. They do whatever it takes to survive, even if it means to kill (which doesn't mean they enjoy it).
In other words, psychos are sick people without conscience who lack guilt or/and empathy. Socios are antisocial criminals capable of anything.
English is not my primary language, but at least I speak more than you. -
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Silent_Bob01 — 10 years ago(April 07, 2015 08:53 PM)
Why? Because it was a fascinating movie and Gyllenhaal's performance was brilliant and layered. He used a facade of a dorky, awkward individual to mask the fact that he was a pure psychopath (and yes, a scumbag).
I think that's worth exploring. It's not like this was some mindless action film like The Expendables. Not that I don't enjoy mindless action, but there's nothing to analyze there, UNLIKE with a film like Nightcrawler. -
PorcelainX — 10 years ago(April 22, 2015 04:13 AM)
I would classify him like a movie monster. A caricature analog of human behavior lacking the depth or realism of it's sources of inspiration. Kind of like how The Creature from the Black Lagoon could just be an analog of a lecherous unattractive person, or King Kong could be a combination of archaic racial stereotypes and a violent criminal. The character has no backstory, so has no dots to be connected. What's presented seems to be mixture of Autism, Antisocial and Sociopathic behavior. The problem is these don't typically fit together and and If his character is taken as anything to define reality by, one might look at someone on the autistic spectrum and think they have no empathy, morality or remorse or even be capable of murder, which is not the case. Taking reality into defining the character would mean that his definition defined an aspect of reality, which he probably doesn't. However, taken as a fictional person (which he is) he wouldn't be as compelling if he made sense. He's a high functioning, non empathetic, Autistic Sociopath. A unicorn of dysfunction.
