Is There Anyone Here That DOESN'T Think CW was better than the TC of BVS?
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SkeksisGirl — 9 years ago(September 30, 2016 06:10 PM)
Except that I don't see Superman as a hero in the current universe because of how badly I feel Snyder did with MoS.
I see why Batman had a hate on for Superman in this, it showed. I also think his complete 180 because of Martha was very poorly done. And don't get me started with his killing, yet having the Joker still alive and the Dead Robin's weapon being what looks like a Halberd.
Tony flipping out and attacking Steve and Bucky the second he learns that the Winter soldier killed his parents, TOTALLY in character.
Batman and Superman in BvS. Totally OOC.
"Silflay hraka, u embleer rah!" -
CaptainBatman — 9 years ago(September 30, 2016 06:20 PM)
I respectfully disagree about MOS Superman. I loved it. The only un-hero like thing he did was kiss Lois and joke in the rubble of dead people which took me out of it for 2 minutes.
The Martha scene is a very controversial topic. For me though, the Martha scene was Bruce looking in the mirror and realizing that he was Joe Chill in that situation. He had realized he was the monster, the very thing he set out to destroy. His PTSD was screwing with him, which was why he was acting erratic ( WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME). He was about to kill an innocent person who had human loved ones. That's what the Martha scene did for me.
With Bruce's killing, it didn't bother me as much because I kinda understood where he was coming from and the fact that it didn't happen until the Metropolis incident.
Although I think they missed a huge opportunity with the killing. If he hadn't killed yet, it would be a buildup through the entire movie that Superman would be his first kill, which for me, would have been a better buildup. Like everything is leading up to his first kill: Superman and this will be his legacy. It would have made more sense to me. -
SkeksisGirl — 9 years ago(September 30, 2016 06:37 PM)
I respectfully disagree about MOS Superman. I loved it. The only un-hero like thing he did was kiss Lois and joke in the rubble of dead people which took me out of it for 2 minutes.
And the part where he completely destroys that one guy's truck because he was humiliated. Such a great example of heroism there Clark. /sarcasm
The Martha scene is a very controversial topic. For me though, the Martha scene was Bruce looking in the mirror and realizing that he was Joe Chill in that situation. He had realized he was the monster, the very thing he set out to destroy. His PTSD was screwing with him, which was why he was acting erratic ( WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME). He was about to kill an innocent person who had human loved ones. That's what the Martha scene did for me.
Except Clark isn't innocent, he's VERY much responsible for a lot of the death and destruction that happened. So no, the Martha scene made no sense. And the 180 was WAY too abrupt.
With Bruce's killing, it didn't bother me as much because I kinda understood where he was coming from and the fact that it didn't happen until the Metropolis incident.
Batman. Does. Not. Kill.
That has been part of his psychosis for over 70 years. That is extremely OOC of the character and one of the reasons that Jason Todd was so pissed in Under the Red Hood.
Although I think they missed a huge opportunity with the killing. If he hadn't killed yet, it would be a buildup through the entire movie that Superman would be his first kill, which for me, would have been a better buildup. Like everything is leading up to his first kill: Superman and this will be his legacy. It would have made more sense to me.
See, THAT would have made sense, not a Batman that's worse than the Punisher.
"Silflay hraka, u embleer rah!" -
CaptainBatman — 9 years ago(September 30, 2016 07:02 PM)
Destroying that dude's truck didn't bother me one bit. Also, it was in that scene that I knew that I would never be Superman, because if I was, I would have sent that guy flying.
Superman is pretty much innocent. He didn't cause any of the death or destruction in MOS. The World Engine and Zod did the destroying. The most that Superman did was put Zods face against the side of a building, which was only windows.
My thing with the killing was that he didn't go out of his way to kill criminals. It wasn't "Screw it, Alfred! I'm going to kill every crimnal out there! Because I'm Batman!". It was more " Screw it, Alfred. I won't try to kill anyone but if any dumb criminal stands between me and Superman, I won't try and save him". Also, remember, this is a jaded, cynical, broken, PTSD ridden, tired and somewhat psychotic Bruce Wayne who's been fighting for 20 years and lost friends and family (Robin) in his crusade that means nothing when Superman arrives in the skies. His world is shattered. His perception of reality is distorted from Superman's arrival. He's thinking that all of his years meant nothing because now
we have a all powerful alien who at any moment could snap and wipe out the planet (Knightmare). He's seen it happen in his 20 year history (Harvey, Jason Todd). The rules are gone. His no kill code is gone. He has to stop Superman at all costs before he turns. And also, it's evidenced that he hasn't been killing for a while, hence the "New Rules" scene.
It's a pretty good motivation, in my opinion. -
Ramboman24 — 9 years ago(September 30, 2016 10:07 PM)
I didn't care about Superman destroying the truck. That's hardly a crime when you consider what Superman COULD do to humanity. It was years of being trash talked by people but being unable to do anything about it.
It's set up well in the film as a joke because we witness different instances of Superman being trolled leading up to when he does it. His whole life he hasn't been able to take out his frustration on people because he's far more powerful than him.
So he takes his frustration out on an object.
Big deal.
Make up your OWN mind. Don't be a follower.
I didn't quite nail it - Christian Bale -
Verdugo85 — 9 years ago(October 03, 2016 12:17 PM)
The only thing you and other rabid DC fanboys care about for the DCEU is the heroes being "dark" badass, reckless, muscle-bound and action scenes but no story. Its like you want the DCEU to repeat the same mistake as Schumacker's Batman & Robin.
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CichlidAsh — 9 years ago(October 01, 2016 10:58 AM)
For me with BVS, I didn't need the years of buildup. In contrast to Civil War, this wasn't a both sides are right thing. In BVS, Batman is a villain (until "Martha"). He's a villain with good motivations. And that really worked for me, showing how dark a hero could go
I don't think that you need years of build up with Batman and Superman most people have a good idea who these characters are by now. However in BvS both characters are so none relatable why would I give a damn about a grown man dresses up as a bat and murders people? Why do you call this guy a hero he is a murderer and a torturer and while he may be targeting other undesirables that does not make his actions right and just because he changes his mind that does not excuse what he has already done and then in the very next scene he is back to doing it anyway. Then we have Superman a guy who has everything going for him and has a great life but is still a depressed emo? Who here are we meant to actually side with or care about?
To make a great film you need three things - the script, the script and the script -Alfred Hitchcock -
CaptainBatman — 9 years ago(October 02, 2016 10:15 AM)
That's exactly why Batman is a villain in the movie. And for me, it was done well.
To your point of him killing even after Martha, my explanation of that is that while "Martha" is what snapped him out of his kill rage for Superman, Superman's death was the thing that restored hope in humanity and that's what stopped his killing (evidenced from him not branding Lex in the prison).
This Superman does not have a happy life. He's thrown into situation after situation of death and destruction. He is the most controversial figure on Earth. Every action he does has consequences. He has a psychotic billionaire who dresses like a bat after his life. And he has another psychotic billionaire after him who kidnaps his girlfriend and his mother. This is the furthest thing from a happy life. -
Kyos — 9 years ago(October 02, 2016 10:46 AM)
Superman's death was the thing that restored hope in humanity
I get that's how they meant all this, but it just doesn't work for me. Maybe if Superman had actually appeared to be some kind of inspirational figure to Bruce, but he was mostly just a superpowered alien bully. A bully whom Bruce wanted to murder, before he started to claim that his mother had the same name as Bruce's.
After that he saw Superman do the exact same thing he'd done 18 months prior - fight an unstoppable Kryptonian monster. Only this time Supes didn't make it out alive, so instead of spiraling down into murderous rage Bruce now finds his way back to the light?
that's what stopped his killing (evidenced from him not branding Lex in the prison).
I'm almost more pissed about him letting Luthor live at the end than I am about him nonchalantly killing the thugs. That's the one kill that would've been well advised.
This Superman does not have a happy life.
Can't say I ever reaally saw him working towards changing that. His standard reaction to anything unwelcome happening to him is to look constipated and accept it. -
CaptainBatman — 9 years ago(October 02, 2016 11:20 AM)
The thing is that Bruce has been demonizing Superman as a monster. "Martha" changes that.
Superman's death shows how much he cared for this planet, that he gave his life. And Bruce saw this first hand. Metropolis was entirely different.
By not killing Lex, he finishes his arc that ran through the entire movie.
He was plenty happy through a lot of MOS and showed some happiness in BVS. But he doesn't lead a completely happy life. -
Kyos — 9 years ago(October 02, 2016 12:49 PM)
The thing is that Bruce has been demonizing Superman as a monster.
He even acknowledged that Superman wasn't exactly evil, he wanted to murder him for a 1% chance that he might turn bad at some point.
"Martha" changes that.
There are precious few scenes in movie history that I so wish would've worked for me but so absolutely didn't work at all.
By not killing Lex, he finishes his arc that ran through the entire movie.
The arc that he started out somehow so broken that he killed people left and right, without us really ever seeing what -if anything- that meant to him? He kills hired thugs and doesn't even bat an eye (pun alarm) and he plans to murder a guy who did nothing but help people, but seeing that guy sacrifice himself somehow brings him to return to being a better person we can only guess he might've been in the past.
And to celebrate that he decides not kill or sentence to death a madman who must be one of the worst criminals he's ever met. That guy also knows all his secrets, the secrets of his deceased, living and potential future allies, and indicates that he's somehow connected to an even bigger evil that's about to come.
He was plenty happy through a lot of MOS and showed some happiness in BVS. But he doesn't lead a completely happy life.
I don't remember too much happiness before learning to fly, meeting Lois and working at the Planet.
In BvS there's the moment when he smiles because he's about to put a terrorist through multiple walls, the one when he distracts Lois from seriously discussing their relationship via super-bathtub-sex, maybe to some degree when he hallucinates about his father (whom he let die), when he talks to his mom (partially about the father he let die).
Also when he finally realizes that the planet he's been living on his whole life is "his world", instead of the one he only learned about less than two years ago, and that Lois is "his world", as if she hadn't already been the thing he cared about the most by far. Oh yeah, a minute after that last happy moment he's dead. -
heatvision38 — 9 years ago(September 30, 2016 05:38 PM)
I prefer BvS theatrical cut. With CW, I find a lot of scenes to be bland and while it may be Marvel's most mature movie and the action in some scenes were amazing, I also don't feel emotionally connected with the movie while I do with BvS TC.