So that men like Edward or Tony won't be considered "weak" because they are sensitive or unwilling to have a dick fight
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dark_frances — 9 years ago(January 21, 2017 03:49 PM)
Yes that's what I mean, but then I never said the patriarchal society was all, or even predominantly bad. I was only saying that it could be improved, making life better for both genders. Hell, even the notion of feminism was brewed in the same patriarchal society.
As another consequence of this, since it invented, and consequently got changed by, all them weird unnatural technologies, the patriarchal society itself must be as unnatural as feminism (which was the notion I was arguing against in the previous message - that "unnatural" doesn't mean a thing).
there's a highway that is curling up like smoke above her shoulder -
andrewmichaelbrookes — 9 years ago(January 07, 2017 12:31 PM)
You really think that Adams' character left her weak husband for the strong, strapping alpha male because she was insufficiently feminist? If feminism tells men that they don't need to be strong and conventionally masculine, that's a dangerous thing. Because they do need to be masculine. Women seem to prefer masculine guys over sensitive guys. Telling guys it's okay to be sensitive will just cause more guys to be lonely and sexless. Also, stop pretending that it is other men who are enforcing masculinity when it is actually the sexual preferences of women. This is why we must get rid of feminism.
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cajunbluesbaby — 9 years ago(January 08, 2017 03:04 AM)
I married a man who is both sensitive & strong. It takes courage to be kind. He's also a 10 year military vet who's seen combat many times as a military cop. If this happened to us, he'd have handled them. It is not weak for the real Edward to not care about riches or fame and just want to write and lead a simple life. The man in the novel
was
weak. First of all, freaking carry a gun. Be smart, be prepared, & be well trained. Don't try to pacify an obvious group of thugs. They ran you off the road. There's no negotiating. If he had a gun or at least the balls to grab a tire iron from the back of his car and beat the tar out of the leader, the other 2 guys would've run away. That's how you handle bullies, you take out the leader. This guy was a sociopath looking for trouble. Being compassionate and kind is important, however. Just being an alpha male without that turns them into pricks like the sociopaths in the novel. Feminism is supposed to mean equal rights not more rights. Feminism got me the right to vote. Not mad at that. It's shame that a few have spoiled the word for many. -
LukeLovesFilm28 — 9 years ago(January 08, 2017 05:18 PM)
Why do you have to make everything men do or don't do an example of the evil, mythological patriarchy??
I have news for you. That aggression to fight off people threatening you or your loved ones has NOTHING to do with men, masculinity or patriarchy. It's called SELF-PRESERVATION.
We don't need more feminism. We need more common sense.
Get off your soapbox while I play you a tune on the tiniest violin. -
cajunbluesbaby — 9 years ago(January 11, 2017 07:52 PM)
Huh? lol I think you might mean that reply for someone else. Never said a word of that. My husband is a combat vet, 10 years military police. I love that he can protect us that what I was saying. It was frustrating watching a man not fight for his family. Really no idea what you're talking about lol. Might wanna copy and paste that into the discussion you meant to reply to.
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andrewmichaelbrookes — 9 years ago(January 09, 2017 01:41 PM)
So you married a conventionally masculine guy- a guy who has military experience, who is strong, and who would have been able to defend his family from three dangerous men. And this disproves my previous point how, exactly? You are saying that men need to be both strong and sensitive. OP is saying that men do not need to be strong. Your disagreement is with OP, not with me.
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carinosamente — 9 years ago(February 11, 2017 12:23 AM)
I hope this is not a common mindset, being willing to suppress your emotions all for the sake of sex appeal.
There's no doubt that women have a hand in enforcing masculinity (i.e., how Adams' character left her husband because she, like her mother, thought he was weak), but men do too. Growing up I can't even count the number of times I've seen adult male figures tell young boys not to cry because it's weak. Women, often times the more 'traditional' kind, do this too, like calling men who cry "b*tches" or other degrading terms. I've seen feminists denounce this so I wonder why your conclusion is to get rid of it. Buzzwords aside, I feel like it's more dangerous to tell boys they
do
need to be strong and conventionally masculine, because some just aren't. Some are sensitive and they should know that it's okay. Men have the highest rates of suicide and I could only hope that number could lessen if only they were told they didn't need to be strong all the time. -
KiloOne — 9 years ago(January 11, 2017 11:31 AM)
your post shows how you didin't get the movie she called him ''weak'' and he told her at the point they were arguing that she was the one running away , that's the only reason he wrote the book to show her that she was the ''weak'' one , Tony and Ed are only portraid as ''weak'' men to deliver this deeper insight.
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englisher101 — 9 years ago(January 22, 2017 09:59 PM)
The most feminine people in this film were not Tony/Edward, but the rapists. They're the ultimate feminine types. They act impulsively on their emotional impulses like anger.
Statistically these rapists would have most likely been raised by single mothers (over 70% chance) and would have lacked a strong father figure in the household.
Edward is just a struggling writer. There was nothing in the film to suggest he was really sensitive and weak. It would have made sense if he broke down crying a lot or punched walls in anger or became an alcoholic or something the types of things that emasculating men tends to encourage. It would have made sense if he was a manipulative and passive-aggressive type of person in the relationship with insecurities and tendencies towards emotional abuse. -
tigerfish50 — 9 years ago(January 23, 2017 08:50 AM)
The most feminine people in this film were not Tony/Edward, but the rapists. They're the ultimate feminine types. They act impulsively on their emotional impulses like anger.
I can't agree with this statement - anger and the desire to rape aren't generally understood to be feminine traits. And neither is impulsiveness - especially in single mothers who can be especially resilient and courageous.
Edward is just a struggling writer. There was nothing in the film to suggest he was really sensitive and weak.
OTOH I do agree with this point. There are a number of lamebrain posters on this board - most notably FartyKat - who yammer on endlessly about Edward being "weak". They watch the scene where Susan dines with her mother, find the woman repulsive, but then parrot her opinion of Edward as if it were fact. If you're not mentally deficient, it's very obvious what Susan's mother meant by "weak" - Edward hadn't inherited sufficient wealth. -
Apollo_Kreez — 9 years ago(January 26, 2017 01:51 AM)
Yes, but couldn't you argue the fact that Tony was so incredibly weak that he couldn't even bring himself to attempt to fight for his family? I mean, after all, they did end up getting
raped and murdered.- and yes, I get that the whole novel is a visualization of Susan reading Edwards book so therefore Tony is a personification of Edward in the past, but you could argue that if Edward had fought for his relationship in a more masculine way instead of letting Susan walk all over him, that things could have been different.
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WhiteDiablo — 9 years ago(February 01, 2017 04:36 AM)
On the contrary, this is why we need masculism. He should have pulled out a gun and blew all 3 away.
There will always be psychopaths in this world; man and woman. It has nothing to do with patriarchy but it sometimes does take masculine strength to deal with it.
Femininity serves a purpose; and so does masculinity. I don't mean 'man enough to show your emotions', but man enough to break someone's jaw when the situation calls for it, which is what Tony lacked.