Fifty Shades Darker
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Eva_Yojimbo — 9 years ago(February 12, 2017 12:13 PM)
Your new strategy seems to be to throw out as many definitions as possible to distract from the idiocy of your first one. Nice try, but you can't make reality go a different way depending on how you define words. You'll never find 50 Shades for sale in a porn shop.
Rabbit
: It's rare that stupid doesn't bring douchedom with it. -
TRUMP_Ftw — 9 years ago(February 12, 2017 12:15 PM)
The
representation
in books, magazines, photographs, films, and other media
of scenes of sexual behavior
that are erotic or lewd and are designed to arouse sexual interest.
All fundies are nuts-
Poisoned Dragon -
Eva_Yojimbo — 9 years ago(February 12, 2017 12:37 PM)
Your new strategy seems to be to throw out as many definitions as possible to distract from the idiocy of your first one. Nice try, but you can't make reality go a different way depending on how you define words. You'll never find 50 Shades for sale in a porn shop.
Rabbit
: It's rare that stupid doesn't bring douchedom with it. -
TRUMP_Ftw — 9 years ago(February 12, 2017 12:46 PM)
The representation in books, magazines, photographs, films, and other media of scenes of sexual behavior that are erotic or lewd and are designed to arouse sexual interest.
That's the first official definition I threw out and you ignored it just like you're doing now.
All fundies are nuts-
Poisoned Dragon -
Eva_Yojimbo — 9 years ago(February 12, 2017 12:57 PM)
I said nothing about an "official" definition, I said YOUR first definition, which was: "If it contains nudity then it is porn."
The problem with many of your "official" definitions is that they are far too subjective to be of use. What's "lewd" is entirely subjective; we don't know the intention ("designed to arouse sexual interest") of those that made it. However, any definition that mentions "explicit" or "open and direct" depictions of sex is objective; they point to things in the work itself as a means of classifying it. Under your "first official definition," one could classify a horror film like Don't Look Now as porn merely because it contains one (rather famous) sex scene, while the rest of the film is a psychological horror, which is asinine.
The entire purpose of defining pornography is to distinguish between films that are explicitly sexual, whose only goal seems to be to "arouse sexual interest," and those where sex may play an important role, but which are not explicit and which are about more than just the sex. 50 Shades is really about the psychology behind the sexual relationship it depicts.
Rabbit
: It's rare that stupid doesn't bring douchedom with it. -
TRUMP_Ftw — 9 years ago(February 12, 2017 06:59 PM)
There's nothing subjective about the definition I gave. 50 shades is showing nudity and sexual behavior. It's pornographic.
What's "lewd" is entirely subjective; we don't know the intention ("designed to arouse sexual interest") of those that made it.
Sure we don't. It's just so difficult to figure out.
All fundies are nuts-
Poisoned Dragon -
Eva_Yojimbo — 9 years ago(February 12, 2017 07:14 PM)
There's nothing subjective about the definition I gave.
How is "lewd" not subjective?
50 shades is showing nudity and sexual behavior. It's pornographic.
Yeah, so do a sh!t-ton of mainstream films that no sane person would label pornographic. Your definitions basically classify every single film with a sex scene as pornography, and that's stupid.
Sure we don't. It's just so difficult to figure out.
Yeah, it kinda is. There's a huge body of literature on this subject, especially in 20th century aesthetic philosophy.
Rabbit
: It's rare that stupid doesn't bring douchedom with it. -
TRUMP_Ftw — 9 years ago(February 12, 2017 07:20 PM)
Yeah, so do a sh!t-ton of mainstream films that no sane person would label pornographic.
Nice try.
Your definitions basically classify every single film with a sex scene as pornography, and that's stupid.
As long as it has nudity and sex acts, it is.
All fundies are nuts-
Poisoned Dragon -
Eva_Yojimbo — 9 years ago(February 12, 2017 07:36 PM)
You're mangling words when you think a sex scene with nudity makes a film pornographic. Nobody defines pornography that way.
nice try suggesting Christians are insane.
You and anyone who agrees with you is insane. This has nothing to do with being Christian. I could go wrangle up 100 Christians and I'd wager you wouldn't get 1/100 to agree that Terminator is porn because it contains nudity and a sex scene.
Rabbit
: It's rare that stupid doesn't bring douchedom with it. -
TRUMP_Ftw — 9 years ago(February 12, 2017 07:41 PM)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softcore_pornography
You lost again.
I could go wrangle up 100 Christians and I'd wager you wouldn't get 1/100 to agree that Terminator is porn because it contains nudity and a sex scene.
But if anyone of them were practicing Christians they would all recognize that 50 shades is pornography. Terminator isn't pornography but does contain a pornographic scene there is no getting around it.
All fundies are nuts-
Poisoned Dragon -
Eva_Yojimbo — 9 years ago(February 12, 2017 07:50 PM)
How did I "lose?" Your link has no relevance to anything I've been saying. Another word for "softcore pornography" is "erotica" and there's real debate as to whether it should even count as "pornography" for several reasons. It's closer to mainstream films in that many are shown in mainstream theaters, rented in mainstream stores (back when they were still around), on Netflix, often shown on cable TV, etc. Compare that to hardcore pornography that isn't. Something like Emmanuelle is still extremely different from Deep Throat, and both are extremely different to 50 Shades. There's a spectrum between them of sexual explicitness, how much sex is involved, and how much other considerations (characters, drama, themes, aesthetics, etc.) play a part. You think you can just erase all these differences because of how you define a word? Reality doesn't work like that, bub.
But if anyone of them were practicing Christians they would all recognize that 50 shades is pornography.
I'm sure some would, but hardly all.
Terminator isn't pornography but does contain a pornographic scene there is no getting around it.
So you think the only purpose of the sex scene in Terminator is to arouse sexual interest in the audience? It has no relevance to the plot or characters, no aesthetic consideration given to how it's filmed/presented? You watch it and all you think is "boner time?" No wonder you insist on such a juvenile label when your mind is that juvenile.
Rabbit
: It's rare that stupid doesn't bring douchedom with it. -
TRUMP_Ftw — 9 years ago(February 12, 2017 07:54 PM)
How did I "lose?"
Right here.
It typically contains nude or semi-nude actors involved in love scenes, and is intended to be sexually arousing
and aesthetically beautiful.
I doubt it. Some might, but not all.
You don't know what a practicing Christian is?
All fundies are nuts-
Poisoned Dragon -
Eva_Yojimbo — 9 years ago(February 12, 2017 08:04 PM)
Right here.
Which has nothing to do with what I was saying. "Softcore porn/erotica" is the middle ground between mainstream films and hardcore porn. When most people today talk porn, the latter is what they mean; it's what I meant because there's a big difference between those films and everything else in how they're shot, shown, marketed, etc. You don't seem to comprehend this.
You don't know what a practicing Christian is?
You don't know that not all practicing Christians are as Puritanical as you? The Bible doesn't even say anything about pornography. Pretty much the only passage that's ever cited is the one about lusting after a woman in real life, which isn't what happens when you watch porn.
Rabbit
: It's rare that stupid doesn't bring douchedom with it. -
TRUMP_Ftw — 9 years ago(February 14, 2017 03:06 PM)
Which has nothing to do with what I was saying.
It has to do with what I've been saying. Aren't you even paying attention?
The Bible doesn't even say anything about pornography.
But it denounces lust, sins of the flesh, fornication and uncovering someone's nakedness. Which would make watching porn sinful.
All fundies are nuts-
Poisoned Dragon -
Eva_Yojimbo — 9 years ago(February 15, 2017 12:06 AM)
It has to do with what I've been saying.
Yes but you're completely ignoring the context. "Softcore pornography" is really just "erotica," and the only reason the term "softcore porn" came to be is because the famous films of the late 70s came after the emergence of hardcore films in the mid 70s. Were it not for this relationship, the so-called "softcore porn" films would've clearly fallen under the more general label of erotica:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erotica
"A key distinction (between erotica and porn) is that
pornography's objective is the graphic depiction of sexually explicit scenes
, while erotica "seeks to tell a story that involves sexual themes" that include a more plausible depiction of human sexuality than in pornography."
But it denounces lust, sins of the flesh, fornication and uncovering someone's nakedness.
All of this was related to lusting after/fornicating with real women, not images of them. The only "uncovering nakedness" "sin" I know of was when Adam and Eve recognized their own nakedness, which made them embarrassed; It was not the nudity itself that was embarrassing, but rather knowing of lust for the first time. That's the only way to explain why nudity wansn't a sin before eating the fruit.
Regardless of that, there's no reason that every depiction of nudity and sex should make you feel any kind of lust at all. In most films you're supposed to understand how events impact characters, their feelings/thoughts/actions, so you should be able to understand any sex from that perspective, rather than every example triggering lustful thoughts. Most artistic depictions of nudity and sex are meant to be aesthetic and beautiful, or have some relevance to the story and characters, not lustful.
Rabbit
: It's rare that stupid doesn't bring douchedom with it. -
TRUMP_Ftw — 9 years ago(February 15, 2017 12:14 PM)
the only reason the term "softcore porn" came to be is because the famous films of the late 70s came after the emergence of hardcore films in the mid 70s
Which isn't what we are discussing but nice try.
pornography's objective is the graphic depiction of sexually explicit scenes
Supplying a different definition doesn't refute the definition I provided.
The only "uncovering nakedness" "sin" I know of was when Adam and Eve recognized their own nakedness,
Maybe you should try reading the bible before you declare yourself an authority on it.
All of this was related to lusting after/fornicating with real women, not images of them.
That is one of the weakest most pathetic arguments I've ever encountered. The film we're discussing has real naked women in it, pinhead.
That's the only way to explain why nudity wansn't a sin before eating the fruit.
I know you're arrogant but did you just speak for God.
Regardless of that, there's no reason that every depiction of nudity and sex should make you feel any kind of lust at all.
Stop trying to go off topic.
All fundies are nuts-
Poisoned Dragon -
Eva_Yojimbo — 9 years ago(February 15, 2017 12:59 PM)
Which isn't what we are discussing but nice try.
You're that one that brought "softcore" into this discussion, which I had already SAID we weren't discussing. So now you agree we weren't discussing "softcore" but rather "pornography" which is generally short for "hardcore pornography?" You clearly don't understand the difference or you wouldn't have linked to the Wiki article in the first place.
Supplying a different definition doesn't refute the definition I provided.
You've provided like 4 different definitions throughout this thread, including ones that make the distinction between "explicit" or "open and direct" depictions of sex, which is what I was making because that's the factor that determines how/where certain films can be shown and rented. None of the definitions you've provided align with your original "any film that contains sex and nudity."
Maybe you should try reading the bible before you declare yourself an authority on it.
Nowhere did I declare myself an authority on it, but you're not exactly proving me wrong.
The film we're discussing has real naked women in it, pinhead.
Uhhh, no, it has
images
of real, naked women in it. You think a photograph of a woman is the same thing as the woman herself?
Stop trying to go off topic.
How is it going off topic? Part of the issue is whether or not pornography is sinful. You've yet to show anything in The Bible that argues it is because The Bible doesn't address pornography. Prove me wrong.
Rabbit
: It's rare that stupid doesn't bring douchedom with it.