Hello.
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jakeconhale — 9 years ago(January 17, 2017 01:50 PM)
The one thing they didn't recreate, however, was the pre-production.
Lost was throwing major elements in as late as the pilot. That smoke monster stomping around the woods? Added because someone thought it looked cool in Forbidden Planet with no idea of who, what, why, etc.
BSG was unabashedly making things up as they went along and it went fairly well, as you didn't need too much backstory with that concept as much as a plan forward.
B5 knew what it was trying to do and where it was going - that, beyond almost anything else, is what made the series so powerful.
I've heard of other shows proudly boasting they are writing 6 episodes ahead of the airing episode. That's not a good thing - it means you have no long term plan. Hell, even 24 started the series without a back-half of the season.
Course, the trouble with intricately planned stories is that all that effort gets wasted if the show is cancelled 5 episodes in.
Jake Meridius Conhale, at your service!
"Old Man" of the BSG (RDM) boards. -
purple_dave — 9 years ago(January 17, 2017 05:18 PM)
Don't kid yourself. Every long-form series ends up throwing stuff in that was never intended. If they didn't, it's only because the entire series is scripted before the series is even picked up. Yeah, Lost was in danger of getting lost for a while there, but that was more because ABC wouldn't commit to an end date so they couldn't really get too far in that direction without the risk of arriving at the finale a year or two before the series ended.
nBSG only worked in terms of winging it if you call two seasons of treading water while figuring out what they actually wanted to do with the show "working". That's why nBSG viewers seem to fall into two camps: Those who thought the show was the greatest thing since sliced bread until it went off the rails heading into S3, and those who thought two years of prologue was a bit excessive.
B5 was fairly unique in that it did have a five-year planor rather it had two five-year plans. One was for B5 and would have ended with the station being destroyed in the war, and the other was for a spin-off series that would have basically finished what he ended up getting done in five. JMS claims the final product was more or less exactly as outlined, but I think I've only ever run across one other person who has read the original outline and would agree with that claim. At least 90% of what was in that outline was either retooled or thrown out completely before making it to the screen, and I honestly don't think the series would have made it even five years without those changes, let alone the originally planned ten years combined.
Even if you do side with JMS' claim after reading the outline, no less than half a dozen characters made use of the "trap doors" that he liked to talk about. The doctor, second-in-command, and Lyta all got trap doored out of the series after the pilot movie. Sinclair got it at the end of S1, Talia partway through S2, and Ivanova when S5 got picked up at the last minute. Those six cast changes (six, in a show that only started with five humans in the main cast, BTW, so 4/5 humans got written off by the end of the first season, and two of them got it a second time over the next three)) fundamentally changed core aspects of the show, invalidated some plot threads, and caused new ones to be added.
Now, Cuse & Lindelof maintained that they always intended for Lost to begin and end on the zoom in/out of Jack's eye. I'd say it's possible they stayed more true to their original vision than JMS did (and again, B5 is all the better for it).
You know what noone tells you about cooking with the Dark Side? The food is really good! -
DeltaFlotFan — 9 years ago(January 24, 2017 09:34 AM)
It also must be remembered that some of the cast leaving was due to outside factors. Sinclair was supposed to be in for the whole series, but the actor developed mental stability issues, so he had to written out, and not seen again until his ultimate destiny could be squeezed in. Depending on who you believe, Claudia was either fired or quit before Season 5, which changing her destiny to command the station in that last season, and we got stuck with what's her name. Even though there was a complete plan for B5, it like military plans, had to change when it met reality.
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jakeconhale — 9 years ago(January 24, 2017 01:21 PM)
Yes, but that was also part of the strength of the series.
There were backup plans, contingency plans. This actor left? Oh well, bring in a new one. The arcs had contingency plans - the "trap doors".
Sinclair left so we got Sheridan, different character but achieves a similar end. Then there's the telepath shuffle or how the original Doc's stim addictions shifted to Franklin.
And yet, the story itself went on, because (outside of JMS) there wasn't a single point of failure.
I would love to know what the unused trap doors were, though. Once you lock in Londo as being Emperor, what if Jurasik left/died? Just "oh, he's been recalled to Centauri Prime, very busy, now it's all Vir"?
I mean, I could see G'Kar being replaced by Ta'lon or whoever that was (sword narn), most of the Earth personnel could just be replaced by their subordinates with adjusted stories (Allen becomes Garibaldi - swapping drinks for whatever addiction Allen had, Corwin becomes Ivanova, etc), but what about Delenn? Lennier just picking up her mantle in honor of her memory?
Anyways, I digress - these trap doors are indicative of the adaptability and planning inherent in the series. Other shows that are just winging it as they go along lack the ability for long term foreshadowing or as satisfying conclusions
Jake Meridius Conhale, at your service!
"Old Man" of the BSG (RDM) boards. -
purple_dave — 9 years ago(January 24, 2017 03:45 PM)
All of the cast changes were explained away within the series, but were ultimately due to real-world reasons.
Takashima, the original Doctor, and Lyta were all replaced due to post-pilot tweaking going into the regular series, but they all also happened to be present when Kosh' encounter suit was opened and that was given as a rumored reason for why they were all recalled back to Earth. Talia had the sleeper agent thing, but in reality the actress wasn't happy that she wasn't given a focal role like Deanna Troi (who once showed up in the docking bay to bid farewell to a basketball player dressed as a Klingon just to fulfill contractual obligations to have all the main cast in every episode so they could all get paid accordingly). Sinclair was inducted into the Rangers, but O'Hare not so much developed a mental disorder as the pressures of filming a regular series as one of the main-main cast made it too difficult for him to cope with his situation (the same basic reason that Roy Harper got written out of Arrow). And Claudia Christian played hardball with the final season's contract and missed her deadline, while Ivanova left to persue her career after Marcus' death.
You know what noone tells you about cooking with the Dark Side? The food is really good! -
Theoden_of_ODU — 9 years ago(January 23, 2017 11:09 AM)
I've heard of other shows proudly boasting they are writing 6 episodes ahead of the airing episode. That's not a good thing - it means you have no long term plan.
I remember the guy behind Heroes, Tim Kring, being incredibly proud about how they were writing scripts about 4 episodes ahead of what was being filmed at the time.
If you're writing a serialized show full of soap opera-style twists and turns out of left-field, and don't care about the long term quality of a story arc, then by not having a plan (
and 4 or 6 episodes ahead of where the show is being filmed or aired is not a plan
) is certainly fine. Just don't be shocked if the end result looks strung together haphazardly.
Hell, even 24 started the series without a back-half of the season
Certainly true about season one, and I wouldn't be shocked if it was true about nearly every other season the show ever aired (I can only guess since I don't know details about the show's production after season one). You can break down most seasons of 24 into at least 2 or 3 main story-arcs, with usually an episode or two of transition/overlap between each "part." In some cases, the stories shift so radically that events earlier in the season don't even make a reappearance.
No, not the mind probe! -
kerryedavis — 9 years ago(January 23, 2017 12:23 PM)
I remember the guy behind Heroes, Tim Kring, being incredibly proud about how they were writing scripts about 4 episodes ahead of what was being filmed at the time.
I never even started watching Heroes, once I didn't hear about the girl coming out of the fire naked because her "mortal" clothes got burned off. -
preachcaleb — 1 month ago(February 23, 2026 09:07 PM)
I'd have to disagree about not having review value. Rewatching the show knowing what's coming creates many opportunities to catch little moments of foreshadowing that may have gone unnoticed on an initial viewing.
So many stories, so little time. -
Carzavol — 9 years ago(February 07, 2017 04:03 AM)
Hello,
I came across this on a Pirates of the Caribbean board and thought I'd share it.
It has been made independently and to be as close to the current boards as possible. They have not implemented individual movie boards yet, but it's a good start IMO.
I hope this is helpful for a lot of you - I know it'll help me get over the fact the real boards are disappearing!
Enjoy
http://imdb2.freeforums.net/ -
RIP_IMDb — 9 years ago(February 07, 2017 04:11 AM)
I'll do!
http://imdb2.freeforums.net