The awkward and inappropriate rape discussion…
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LightningLad — 14 years ago(August 24, 2011 10:53 AM)
Our culture's mentality will eventually shift, and one day it may seem very strange and even offensive that joking about rape would be considered almost as awful as actual rape. There is something a bit odd about how speech is put on the same level as actual atrocities. I've never found this scene offensive, and I'm someone who really can't stand watching scenes in movies that depict rape. I'll avoid a movie for the rest of my life if I know it has a rape scene, but a the second poster said, it's realistic for the purposes the movie because people often joke about taboo subjects, quite often because of an actual fear. The other thing is just that I never watch a Woody Allen movie from the perspective of believing the characters are supposed to be role models.
Reason is a pursuit, not a conclusion. -
paudie — 14 years ago(September 20, 2011 05:41 AM)
That conversation made me feel a bit uncomfortable but as someone said good friends could easily have a humourous conversation on such a subject.
However there is no way that a odern mainstream movie would include such a discussion.
You're an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks, to collect a bill -
rpniew — 14 years ago(March 15, 2012 08:45 AM)
I agree the "rape" discussion is obsolete. Rape is not funny. I'm currently directing a community theatre version of the play and have excised the whole section. I am sure that, given the opportunity, Allen would have rewritten it. The idea is to find a way to bring discussion of sex into to conversation and for the Allan character to be confused about the signals Linda is sending. However, there are better ways to get into the convesation.
I don't quite agree with the earlier poster about the "committing suicide" line. I never get the idea, as stonefaced as the girl is, that she is really contemplating suicide. I see it as a way to blow off Allan. -
megArnold — 13 years ago(December 07, 2012 04:26 AM)
The discussion isn't abouth whether rape is funny, but whether joking about it is funny.
Death isn't funny either, but joking about death is.
Grammar:
The difference between knowing your sh**
and knowing you're sh**. -
doctorcrimedog — 10 years ago(August 18, 2015 01:33 PM)
I think the difference there is that rape disproportionately affects women (prison notwithstanding), and is a trauma that's an aberration from the norm. Death, on the other hand, is something we're all equally stuck with, so we might as well make light of it as best we can as a coping mechanism (though obviously, the number of
other
people's deaths we'll experience will vary widely).
-There is no such word as "alot." -
banders46 — 13 years ago(December 12, 2012 08:03 AM)
Well said. I think the conversation also just reveals, in a funny way, Allan's fear about doing something wrong ("I was nowhere near Oakland!"), as if it were on the same level as rape, and Linda's general goofiness while drinking champagne. Anyway, I think Woody writes women well in some ways, but sometimes their lines sound more like Woody talking through them (I mean, come on, what woman would say the thing about possibly enjoying rape?). This also works well in a way, because all of his movies have that quality of taking place in the Woody persona's head. We're not really getting reality, just his perception of reality.
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Howlin Wolf — 13 years ago(May 30, 2012 05:07 AM)
I can't defend the viewpoint, but at the same time, it was interesting to hear people who think like that so, I would take a movie with a provocative and memorable discussion like that in it any time, over one where the characters simply spout bland platitudes.
Born when she kissed me, died when she left me, lived whilst she loved me -
banders46 — 13 years ago(December 20, 2012 06:07 PM)
I thought of this thread the other day when I watching an old "Simpsons" episode in which Homer almost hits Ned Flanders over the head with a wrench to get his football tickets. Yes, that's right, Homer Simpson, beloved by America, contemplates murder (or attempted murder) in order to score some football tickets. Now, surely if the Simpsons can make a joke about murder
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global_global — 13 years ago(December 29, 2012 01:21 PM)
I wonder if people actually comprehended this film.
Woody Allen had the hots for his friend's wife. Neurotic and paranoid, he went through all the ins and outs as to whether he could make a move. She mentions rape and he jumps.
He's so nervous and insecure that he places his situation (having the hots for a girl and not know if/how to make a move) with being an actual rapist. -
banders46 — 13 years ago(January 03, 2013 10:21 AM)
Right, there was also a "fantasy" scenario right before this where he attacks her in front of the fireplace and she yells "rape," whereas in the previous fantasies she had given in to his advances. This film is also about what's going in Alan's (the character's) head.
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forthesafetyofpuppies — 13 years ago(March 18, 2013 08:19 AM)
Now, surely if the Simpsons can make a joke about murder ..
In this wacky world in which we live, rape is deemed a much more heinous crime than murder, for some unfathomable reason. Personally, I think it's insane; a product of pure propaganda.
I met a young girl, she gave me a rainbow
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doctorcrimedog — 10 years ago(August 18, 2015 02:12 PM)
Everyone's going to die someday, but not everyone is going to be raped, and most men will never even have to think about it. Also, most of us can imagine a scenario where we might be willing to kill (self defense, or even revenge), whereas most of us could not imagine a scenario where we would deem rape acceptable. Imagine if, in The Princess Bride, Inigo Montoya's father was killed by a woman, and his famous line was "My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. I'm going to rape you." No one would like that character, and no one would cheer his revenge. Killing her would be more acceptable, because it would be seen as basic justice, a life for a life. Rape, on the other hand, is pretty much just expressing a contempt for women. I personally hate PC language police, but I understand why rape is a touchier subject than many.
-There is no such word as "alot." -
patmss — 13 years ago(February 14, 2013 06:46 AM)
Whenever I watch older comedies, I always put myself in the context of that generation culturally. Certain types of humor were definitely more acceptable during particular eras and so I generally come out unscathed in terms of being offended (if not a tiny bit uncomfortable).
It's pretty necessary to overlook these things and see them through a more objective eye if we're to enjoy the movie right? I got through the physical humour of Cary Grant knocking Katherine Hepburn down to the ground in The Philadelphia Story and the child molestation joke in Airplane. I think this rape conversation ranks higher on the comfort meter for me. -
lisajohn-4 — 11 years ago(April 25, 2014 10:09 PM)
I have to agree with patmss. Movie viewers frequently observe a film through their own cultural lenstypically a view influenced by modern political ideas (whether it be an addiction to FOX news or the latest liberal PC trend). I've observed people posit that Ken Kesey's "Sometimes a Great Notion" was about a conservative, anti-union, anti-Hollywood ideology (they clearly had no idea who Ken Kesey was!) and another guy who was appalled that Robert Redford starred in "Jeremiah Johnson" because it was such an "anti-Native American" film .YIKES! Yet another reason I'm glad that I am old..I won't have to suffer such fools much longer!