The awkward and inappropriate rape discussion…
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paudie — 14 years ago(September 20, 2011 05:41 AM)
That conversation made me feel a bit uncomfortable but as someone said good friends could easily have a humourous conversation on such a subject.
However there is no way that a odern mainstream movie would include such a discussion.
You're an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks, to collect a bill -
rpniew — 14 years ago(March 15, 2012 08:45 AM)
I agree the "rape" discussion is obsolete. Rape is not funny. I'm currently directing a community theatre version of the play and have excised the whole section. I am sure that, given the opportunity, Allen would have rewritten it. The idea is to find a way to bring discussion of sex into to conversation and for the Allan character to be confused about the signals Linda is sending. However, there are better ways to get into the convesation.
I don't quite agree with the earlier poster about the "committing suicide" line. I never get the idea, as stonefaced as the girl is, that she is really contemplating suicide. I see it as a way to blow off Allan. -
megArnold — 13 years ago(December 07, 2012 04:26 AM)
The discussion isn't abouth whether rape is funny, but whether joking about it is funny.
Death isn't funny either, but joking about death is.
Grammar:
The difference between knowing your sh**
and knowing you're sh**. -
doctorcrimedog — 10 years ago(August 18, 2015 01:33 PM)
I think the difference there is that rape disproportionately affects women (prison notwithstanding), and is a trauma that's an aberration from the norm. Death, on the other hand, is something we're all equally stuck with, so we might as well make light of it as best we can as a coping mechanism (though obviously, the number of
other
people's deaths we'll experience will vary widely).
-There is no such word as "alot." -
banders46 — 13 years ago(December 12, 2012 08:03 AM)
Well said. I think the conversation also just reveals, in a funny way, Allan's fear about doing something wrong ("I was nowhere near Oakland!"), as if it were on the same level as rape, and Linda's general goofiness while drinking champagne. Anyway, I think Woody writes women well in some ways, but sometimes their lines sound more like Woody talking through them (I mean, come on, what woman would say the thing about possibly enjoying rape?). This also works well in a way, because all of his movies have that quality of taking place in the Woody persona's head. We're not really getting reality, just his perception of reality.
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Howlin Wolf — 13 years ago(May 30, 2012 05:07 AM)
I can't defend the viewpoint, but at the same time, it was interesting to hear people who think like that so, I would take a movie with a provocative and memorable discussion like that in it any time, over one where the characters simply spout bland platitudes.
Born when she kissed me, died when she left me, lived whilst she loved me -
banders46 — 13 years ago(December 20, 2012 06:07 PM)
I thought of this thread the other day when I watching an old "Simpsons" episode in which Homer almost hits Ned Flanders over the head with a wrench to get his football tickets. Yes, that's right, Homer Simpson, beloved by America, contemplates murder (or attempted murder) in order to score some football tickets. Now, surely if the Simpsons can make a joke about murder
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global_global — 13 years ago(December 29, 2012 01:21 PM)
I wonder if people actually comprehended this film.
Woody Allen had the hots for his friend's wife. Neurotic and paranoid, he went through all the ins and outs as to whether he could make a move. She mentions rape and he jumps.
He's so nervous and insecure that he places his situation (having the hots for a girl and not know if/how to make a move) with being an actual rapist. -
banders46 — 13 years ago(January 03, 2013 10:21 AM)
Right, there was also a "fantasy" scenario right before this where he attacks her in front of the fireplace and she yells "rape," whereas in the previous fantasies she had given in to his advances. This film is also about what's going in Alan's (the character's) head.
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forthesafetyofpuppies — 13 years ago(March 18, 2013 08:19 AM)
Now, surely if the Simpsons can make a joke about murder ..
In this wacky world in which we live, rape is deemed a much more heinous crime than murder, for some unfathomable reason. Personally, I think it's insane; a product of pure propaganda.
I met a young girl, she gave me a rainbow
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doctorcrimedog — 10 years ago(August 18, 2015 02:12 PM)
Everyone's going to die someday, but not everyone is going to be raped, and most men will never even have to think about it. Also, most of us can imagine a scenario where we might be willing to kill (self defense, or even revenge), whereas most of us could not imagine a scenario where we would deem rape acceptable. Imagine if, in The Princess Bride, Inigo Montoya's father was killed by a woman, and his famous line was "My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. I'm going to rape you." No one would like that character, and no one would cheer his revenge. Killing her would be more acceptable, because it would be seen as basic justice, a life for a life. Rape, on the other hand, is pretty much just expressing a contempt for women. I personally hate PC language police, but I understand why rape is a touchier subject than many.
-There is no such word as "alot." -
patmss — 13 years ago(February 14, 2013 06:46 AM)
Whenever I watch older comedies, I always put myself in the context of that generation culturally. Certain types of humor were definitely more acceptable during particular eras and so I generally come out unscathed in terms of being offended (if not a tiny bit uncomfortable).
It's pretty necessary to overlook these things and see them through a more objective eye if we're to enjoy the movie right? I got through the physical humour of Cary Grant knocking Katherine Hepburn down to the ground in The Philadelphia Story and the child molestation joke in Airplane. I think this rape conversation ranks higher on the comfort meter for me. -
lisajohn-4 — 11 years ago(April 25, 2014 10:09 PM)
I have to agree with patmss. Movie viewers frequently observe a film through their own cultural lenstypically a view influenced by modern political ideas (whether it be an addiction to FOX news or the latest liberal PC trend). I've observed people posit that Ken Kesey's "Sometimes a Great Notion" was about a conservative, anti-union, anti-Hollywood ideology (they clearly had no idea who Ken Kesey was!) and another guy who was appalled that Robert Redford starred in "Jeremiah Johnson" because it was such an "anti-Native American" film .YIKES! Yet another reason I'm glad that I am old..I won't have to suffer such fools much longer!
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mail-2217 — 11 years ago(June 13, 2014 11:29 PM)
I'm a middle-aged white guy so
- MAN, people are so PC these days. It's a JOKE. And an old-fashioned joke. When I was a kid girls and boys (I mean like 10 year olds) would shout 'rape' as a joke if someone got too close for any reason. It was good natured for the simple reason that the idea of rape was just so over the top. Mothers might say, "I'm gonna kill that boy when I get home." It was just an -expression-.
- OTOH, I see movies that are supposed to appeal to teens/Millenials and the casualness about 'sex' and relationships in general just astounds me. There's absolutely no sense of sex as having any sacredness (I don't mean that in a religious context). They make all interactions so 'casual' and meaningless.
It just strikes me as odd that there is so much sensitivity about these old-fashioned jokes while there is such a tsunami of constant hyper-sexualised culture -now-.
It just seems like people worry over the wrong things.
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feodoric — 11 years ago(July 12, 2014 07:12 PM)
For many reasons, our modern society (at least in North America) seems to have undergone an erosion of its sense of humor. The latter is an individual attribute, of course, and it varies enormously as a function of people's intelligence, religious beliefs, body of ethics, etc. Unfortunately for those of us who can transcend first-degree language and distil condemnable behavior to put some absurdity in evidence,
no matter the subject matter
, a neo-puritanical school of thought appears to have made more and more adepts - as well as damage. Basically, for people endorsing such views on what is off-limits for laughter (generally in an unconscious, non-deliberate manner), there is an arbitrary decision that is made on what constitutes (or not) humor.
A good litmus test to detect whether one has already adhered at least in part- to that neo-puritanism of modern humor is to subject oneself to typical episodes of extreme adult cartoons such as
Family Guy, South Park
or
Robot Chicken
, just to name these few. Each of these shows uses just about any topic to generate hilarity, generally right on target for a sizable audience (which is somewhat reassuring). It might be a drastic test as a matter of fact, but I found that I could ROFLMAO with just about any subject covered in these shows, except when I was very tired and could simply not see beyond the immediate repulsiveness of the topic itself (incest, extreme violence as a tool to accentuate a comical line, child masturbation, you name it, as anything goes with these cartoons as you know well). It must be emphasized, though, that these cartoons have one thing in common: they are generally playing the absurd chord, and absurdity is ubiquitous. Meaning: the irony does not bear on the subject matter, but rather on the collision of two ideas that make no sense when juxtaposed. It is virtually independent of any moral judgement on the topic in question, and humor lies strictly in the clash between two or more concepts. It's the
idea
brought by these juxtapositions that is funny, not the topic per se. In fact, the same type of absurdity could be found using almost any other "bad" behavior as a trigger for creating some absurd scenario.
And please dont try to label me as a snob or an elitist if I mention that I count myself among those who can laugh at about anything: this is not a proof of a superior mind, but more of a freer one. Free-minded people are often perceived as spoiled brats who have never experienced any of these delicate topics which can lead to a good laughter provided that the script or writing or conception is good. In my case, at least, let me say that acquiring a truly free mind was a long, difficult process and a costly affair. It is a life choice that means sacrificing a lot of opportunities simply to preserve ones freedom, and often means making enemies. On the other hand, the inner feeling that one gains is more than just a liberty of thinking: its also a sense of inner peace and spiritual strength, which means a lot in the face of adversity. And I encountered more than my lot of it!
Naturally, all roads lead to Rome, and there is more than one way to remain able to find humor with even the most immoral, disgusting topics imaginable, provided that there is, like I said above, some process of distillation. It is in the quintessence that humor lies, and it can be found everywhere, anywhere. As Rabelais wrote: Laughter is a purely human attribute. Are the offended virgins who are multiplying in the early 21st century losing it? And since Im in a mood for citations, Ill let Pascal finish: Man is neither beast nor angel, and trouble is: who wants to play the angel, plays the beast.
The cartoons mentioned above specifically target adults, because the capacity for abstraction fully develops when reaching maturity with the help of a proper education, of course, and by there I dont equate education with academic training. Common sense can develop even in people who never studied Plato or Descartes: a full, uninhibited sense of humor needs only the flame of intelligence.
Thats a-a-a-a-ll folks, and Viva PIAS and all the politically incorrect comics of the world! -
mail-2217 — 11 years ago(July 12, 2014 09:24 PM)
There's a term paper in there somewhere.
I am not as extreme as yerself. I find much 'modern' humour (Family Guy, Borat, South Park) either derivative or just plain soul destroying. The irony for me is that some of the very same people who might -love- Family Guy would find Play It Again Sam 'offensive'
I think that some of this bias is generational. Younger people are far more willing to assume that their peers 'know what I mean', whereas older people were all 'racists' in the same way that young people of every era tend to think they invented profanity, sex, etc.