The issue with the DCEU…
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matt_shade — 9 years ago(November 28, 2016 04:56 AM)
I fail to see your point. Superman 1938 and Batman 1939 are the first two real milestones of the superhero-comic Golden Age history.
If you're talking about Snyder's versions, let's say the movies tanked worse than any movie in history, how is that relevant to my point? Answer: It isn't.
Snyder didn't go with the Silver Age (with super-dogs and bat-shark repellent sprays), he went closer to the source (where Superman is more powerful than a locomotive, not moving the Moon around with his bare hands, and Batman witnesses mobsters die in acid and shrugs).
It impressing anyone is irrelevant. He's not perverting anything.
Also, this
:
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000130/nest/263626706 -
no_just_no — 9 years ago(November 28, 2016 03:49 PM)
Lol what? These versions are not based off the golden age.
Batman is clearly inspired by Dark Knight Returns only slightly more deranged, and Superman is based off the new 52 series, only Cavills Superman seems more confused and lost.
Golden age Superman couldn't even fly and didn't have heat vision.
Also he was more confident and took action without hesitation.
Honestly, I WISH we could've gotten golden age Superman.
And I think it's safe to say Zack Snyder has the ability to pervert any adaption of Batman and Superman after something like this
http://www.vox.com/2016/5/2/11565932/zack-snyder-justice-league -
matt_shade — 9 years ago(November 28, 2016 05:43 PM)
Lol what? These versions are not based off the golden age.
In spirit they are.
Batman is clearly inspired by Dark Knight Returns only slightly more deranged,
Uh, have you actually read Dark Knight Returns? I'd hide behind Affleck's Batman if the 'grinning surgeon' was in the room.
and Superman is based off the new 52 series
I don't really know New 52 but I know 1938 Superman was gritty like BvS unlike the Silver Age.
Golden age Superman couldn't even fly and didn't have heat vision.
Also he was more confident and took action without hesitation.
All true but beside my point.
Honestly, I WISH we could've gotten golden age Superman.
Dangling mobsters from flagposts and hurling wife-beaters crashing through doors and smashing runaway cars into pavements, yep yep yep.
Also, this
:
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000130/nest/263626706 -
matt_shade — 9 years ago(November 29, 2016 04:53 AM)
What versions are my favorites is irrelevant to this conversation.
And the original versions are not forgotten. These two videos don't showcase the grim aspects of them but they are not forgotten:
In the Silver Age you got things like this:
http://ifanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Action-Comics-Vol.-1-241-1958.jpg
and a lot of stuff on this page:
http://www.superdickery.com/tag/superman/
Also, this
:
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000130/nest/263626706 -
no_just_no — 9 years ago(November 30, 2016 11:12 AM)
"Uh, have you actually read Dark Knight Returns? I'd hide behind Affleck's Batman if the 'grinning surgeon' was in the room."
Well I own it. So I hope I have. That Batman while still intimidating and scary, was still sympathetic and understanding. Affleck did a fine job acting wise, but was written to be way to deranged and trigger happy.
"Dangling mobsters from flagposts and hurling wife-beaters crashing through doors and smashing runaway cars into pavements, yep yep yep."
I hope that's not sarcasm because that truly is what makes Superman great. The Max Fleischer 1940 animated serials were iconic. Not saying a whole feature length movie has to be revolved around something like that but it'd be nice to see Superman confident in his actions in regards to helping people as opposed to him always looking bitter and confused. -
matt_shade — 9 years ago(November 28, 2016 05:02 AM)
Why I tend to avoid them nowadays.
Also, this
:
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000130/nest/263626706 -
jwhiskey89 — 9 years ago(November 29, 2016 05:24 AM)
I do agree that the DCEU has issues but they aren't quite the same reasons. They have showed us two genuinely bad movies while providing one OK movie (MoS).
This is of course only my personal opinion but Superman has always been a bore to me. The original movie with "truth justice and THE AMERICAN WAY" really don't work in todays day and age. I think the idea of a young Superman accepting his powers while struggling to find his moral center while not always having the answers is great. A good person struggling with the responsibility of his powers and his moral fiber is way more interesting than a larger than life character who can solve anything.
Where they messed it up was when they made him too dark and brooding (together with the whole Jonathan Kent arc and the Jesus metaphors).
I only watched BvS once and thought it was terrible but I don't remember Batman using guns to kill people. My issue was the incoherent storyline, the Martha scene, the weak character motivation, the ridiculous shoe in of the other JL chars and them using 3 different superman stories in one movie.
That said I have the same doubts that this movie will do well unless WW really pulls it out of the quicksand -
fourthwall1-2 — 9 years ago(December 01, 2016 11:26 PM)
The only bad movie is Suicide Squad. BvS and Mos are divisive because most people want what they recognize and are afraid of something new. But we all know full well if snyders version first debuted in comic form. There wouldn't be a problem. haters would be saying, "it's so freakin badass! Snyder nailed it."
BvS was great. Simple story even told to you in the opening scene. "The worlds first encounter with the Superman." And that's all the movie is. How people from: religion, politics and socially react to one man with god like abilities. then you have the reaction of lex luthor and Batman. -
Gadget110 — 9 years ago(December 02, 2016 05:04 PM)
Zack Snyder said himself he does not like "Superman, he is not a fan of the character", why the hell would you allow a man that isn't even a fan of the hero or gives a damn about the character the helm for making a Superman film ? It makes ZERO sense.
DC has not just botched it once but twice now but yet they keep rolling on trying to push this "Justice League" film trying so hard to get that Marvel money but refuse to do the hard work.
Marvel took a B list hero and made him a hit(Iron-Man), that film was the foundation of Marvel and the film was done by a man who understood the character, his motivations, and how to make him a household name. Captain America, Thor, and Hulk also had their own solo films where people who knew the character spent time and effort making the best individual film possible with "The Avengers" as what they were building towards. Marvel has been and still is playing the "long game" and they are even making badass tv shows.
DC saw the huge money Marvel is making and wanted in on the action but unlike Marvel they are rushing their films, putting them in the hands of the wrong people and then expect people to give a baker's beep about "Justice League" ? Sorry DC thats not how this works, had they actually put in the time and effort things would be different but as they are JL will likely be just as bad as MOS, BVS, and SS.
"Always two there are , a master and an apprentice" -
exe_malaga93 — 9 years ago(December 03, 2016 05:23 PM)
The thing is, all we see regarding Supes in the film is other people's reactions and opinions to him, and not many of his point of view. He was barely developed in MoS and this. The Capitol scene would've been a perfect moment for him to express his ideals and thinking, but Snyder and writers decided to ruin it with an explosion, which it's not even often mentioned afterwards, thanks to the chaotic script.
The comic book Supes would never care about the popular opinion or journalists and stuff, because he is focused in protecting a world that adopted him. He is an innate leader who acts for the simple fact of doing the right thing. -
jwhiskey89 — 9 years ago(December 05, 2016 01:09 AM)
I tend to disagree.
I was totally on board for a darker new twist on Batman and Superman both and am generally open to new things. However the issue in BvS wasn't the change from the original but the god awful storytelling. Terrible editing, sub-par script, unfocused storyline, incomprehensible or weak character motivations, etc. Look if you are making your movie silly and colourful you can get away with some plot holes and weird stuff but if you make a movie dark and grounded in reality it has to make a lot more sense. That's usually how suspension of disbelief works.
This is why I consider MoS to be the only decent DCEU movie thus far. -
eljay60 — 9 years ago(December 03, 2016 03:30 AM)
It seems to me that DCEU is trying to ground the films in realism, to separate themselves from the more playful side of MCU. It worked great for Nolan's work - his Batman was a single agent, the only 'superhero' in the world, and as far as I remember, the rules of physics weren't broken in his cinematic vision, at least in the first two movies (don't remember the 3rd that well).
But trying to bring realism to a world with Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, et al, just doesn't work. A being with Superman's abilities is a game changer. If he's evil, you can't stop him; if he's not, you don't need to. Snyder seemed to get that bit, but fell apart on the execution because it seems what he really wanted to do was to remake Nolan's vision. And Batman in a world of superbeings is really outclassed. The scripts have to tie themselves in knots to create a scenario where he's not out of the fight in the first 10 seconds.
Unfortunately for DC fans, the flawed movies are profitable. The suits at WB could care less about character and continuity and feel totally justified as they cash their bonus checks. Snyder's powerful visual images may make for an incoherent story, but they do make awesome raw material for the marketing department to work with.
#TeamCap
Unapologetic Moffat fangirl
Beans are evil. Bad, bad beans. -
fourthwall1-2 — 9 years ago(December 03, 2016 06:47 AM)
Snyders realism or nolans has nothing to do with physics. BTW The Batman Begins has the tumbler hopping from roof to roof like a toy. Pretty bad physics.
The realism in the movies comes from consequences and human perspective. Snyder's universe is better than marvel in regards to consequence and death. MoS ends with a massacre of people. These movies have a more serious feel which leads to a more dire need to stop the villains in this world. I love it. -
gannincuss — 9 years ago(December 03, 2016 01:25 PM)
How do these movies have consequences? Man of Steel ended with Superman killing a man with his bare hands, and it's NEVER BROUGHT UP AGAIN. It would have been interesting if he was affected by this, if he showed remorse for what he had done. Instead, it's straight on to the next action scene of him destroying a government satellite and joking about it or plowing a man through walls.
The only consequences I see are Snyder's ham fisted attempts to placate the people who had a problem with the death count by saying "We're in an abandoned part of the city." every 10 f@cking minutes.
