The issue with the DCEU…
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matt_shade — 9 years ago(November 28, 2016 05:02 AM)
Why I tend to avoid them nowadays.
Also, this
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http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000130/nest/263626706 -
jwhiskey89 — 9 years ago(November 29, 2016 05:24 AM)
I do agree that the DCEU has issues but they aren't quite the same reasons. They have showed us two genuinely bad movies while providing one OK movie (MoS).
This is of course only my personal opinion but Superman has always been a bore to me. The original movie with "truth justice and THE AMERICAN WAY" really don't work in todays day and age. I think the idea of a young Superman accepting his powers while struggling to find his moral center while not always having the answers is great. A good person struggling with the responsibility of his powers and his moral fiber is way more interesting than a larger than life character who can solve anything.
Where they messed it up was when they made him too dark and brooding (together with the whole Jonathan Kent arc and the Jesus metaphors).
I only watched BvS once and thought it was terrible but I don't remember Batman using guns to kill people. My issue was the incoherent storyline, the Martha scene, the weak character motivation, the ridiculous shoe in of the other JL chars and them using 3 different superman stories in one movie.
That said I have the same doubts that this movie will do well unless WW really pulls it out of the quicksand -
fourthwall1-2 — 9 years ago(December 01, 2016 11:26 PM)
The only bad movie is Suicide Squad. BvS and Mos are divisive because most people want what they recognize and are afraid of something new. But we all know full well if snyders version first debuted in comic form. There wouldn't be a problem. haters would be saying, "it's so freakin badass! Snyder nailed it."
BvS was great. Simple story even told to you in the opening scene. "The worlds first encounter with the Superman." And that's all the movie is. How people from: religion, politics and socially react to one man with god like abilities. then you have the reaction of lex luthor and Batman. -
Gadget110 — 9 years ago(December 02, 2016 05:04 PM)
Zack Snyder said himself he does not like "Superman, he is not a fan of the character", why the hell would you allow a man that isn't even a fan of the hero or gives a damn about the character the helm for making a Superman film ? It makes ZERO sense.
DC has not just botched it once but twice now but yet they keep rolling on trying to push this "Justice League" film trying so hard to get that Marvel money but refuse to do the hard work.
Marvel took a B list hero and made him a hit(Iron-Man), that film was the foundation of Marvel and the film was done by a man who understood the character, his motivations, and how to make him a household name. Captain America, Thor, and Hulk also had their own solo films where people who knew the character spent time and effort making the best individual film possible with "The Avengers" as what they were building towards. Marvel has been and still is playing the "long game" and they are even making badass tv shows.
DC saw the huge money Marvel is making and wanted in on the action but unlike Marvel they are rushing their films, putting them in the hands of the wrong people and then expect people to give a baker's beep about "Justice League" ? Sorry DC thats not how this works, had they actually put in the time and effort things would be different but as they are JL will likely be just as bad as MOS, BVS, and SS.
"Always two there are , a master and an apprentice" -
exe_malaga93 — 9 years ago(December 03, 2016 05:23 PM)
The thing is, all we see regarding Supes in the film is other people's reactions and opinions to him, and not many of his point of view. He was barely developed in MoS and this. The Capitol scene would've been a perfect moment for him to express his ideals and thinking, but Snyder and writers decided to ruin it with an explosion, which it's not even often mentioned afterwards, thanks to the chaotic script.
The comic book Supes would never care about the popular opinion or journalists and stuff, because he is focused in protecting a world that adopted him. He is an innate leader who acts for the simple fact of doing the right thing. -
jwhiskey89 — 9 years ago(December 05, 2016 01:09 AM)
I tend to disagree.
I was totally on board for a darker new twist on Batman and Superman both and am generally open to new things. However the issue in BvS wasn't the change from the original but the god awful storytelling. Terrible editing, sub-par script, unfocused storyline, incomprehensible or weak character motivations, etc. Look if you are making your movie silly and colourful you can get away with some plot holes and weird stuff but if you make a movie dark and grounded in reality it has to make a lot more sense. That's usually how suspension of disbelief works.
This is why I consider MoS to be the only decent DCEU movie thus far. -
eljay60 — 9 years ago(December 03, 2016 03:30 AM)
It seems to me that DCEU is trying to ground the films in realism, to separate themselves from the more playful side of MCU. It worked great for Nolan's work - his Batman was a single agent, the only 'superhero' in the world, and as far as I remember, the rules of physics weren't broken in his cinematic vision, at least in the first two movies (don't remember the 3rd that well).
But trying to bring realism to a world with Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, et al, just doesn't work. A being with Superman's abilities is a game changer. If he's evil, you can't stop him; if he's not, you don't need to. Snyder seemed to get that bit, but fell apart on the execution because it seems what he really wanted to do was to remake Nolan's vision. And Batman in a world of superbeings is really outclassed. The scripts have to tie themselves in knots to create a scenario where he's not out of the fight in the first 10 seconds.
Unfortunately for DC fans, the flawed movies are profitable. The suits at WB could care less about character and continuity and feel totally justified as they cash their bonus checks. Snyder's powerful visual images may make for an incoherent story, but they do make awesome raw material for the marketing department to work with.
#TeamCap
Unapologetic Moffat fangirl
Beans are evil. Bad, bad beans. -
fourthwall1-2 — 9 years ago(December 03, 2016 06:47 AM)
Snyders realism or nolans has nothing to do with physics. BTW The Batman Begins has the tumbler hopping from roof to roof like a toy. Pretty bad physics.
The realism in the movies comes from consequences and human perspective. Snyder's universe is better than marvel in regards to consequence and death. MoS ends with a massacre of people. These movies have a more serious feel which leads to a more dire need to stop the villains in this world. I love it. -
gannincuss — 9 years ago(December 03, 2016 01:25 PM)
How do these movies have consequences? Man of Steel ended with Superman killing a man with his bare hands, and it's NEVER BROUGHT UP AGAIN. It would have been interesting if he was affected by this, if he showed remorse for what he had done. Instead, it's straight on to the next action scene of him destroying a government satellite and joking about it or plowing a man through walls.
The only consequences I see are Snyder's ham fisted attempts to placate the people who had a problem with the death count by saying "We're in an abandoned part of the city." every 10 f@cking minutes. -
exe_malaga93 — 9 years ago(December 03, 2016 04:46 PM)
Or that they are rushing way too much in building it up. MCU has issues too (even some I agree with), but it won't change the fact that they at least took their time.
Oh, and the unnecessary philosophical and theological content and symbolism than they resorted to in BvS and some instances in MoS. I hope they try at least to tone it down in further movies. -
Gadget110 — 9 years ago(December 03, 2016 05:24 PM)
Atleast Marvel knows what the hell they are doing, their success on both the big screen and the small screen shows this. DC needs to go back to the drawling board, kick Snyder out, and hired the people who made the DCAU(BTAS, SPTAS, JL, JL:U) cause their "brand: on the big screen is just a bad joke.
Superman, and Batman deserve so much better, not long ago DC had "Batman Begins", and "The Dark Knight" two of the best comic book films ever, they need to look at thos films and see what they did that made them so good cause the current films from MOS and onward have been bottom of the barrel garbage.
"Always two there are , a master and an apprentice" -
SuperDevilDoctor — 9 years ago(December 05, 2016 03:02 AM)
is that it keeps building on a horrible version of the Justice League's heart. Man of Steel perverted the Superman myth and BvS built on it further drastically changing the heroes personas.
in your opinion
.
I'm an old geezer who was reading these comics (and suffering through the Adam West era of "Comedy Batman") decades before most of you were born or even before your
parents
were born.
I love MAN OF STEEL. Finally, somebody made the kind of Superman movie I've always wanted to see!
And the Ultimate Cut of BVS is every bit as good as the best MCU films.
Send her to the snakes! -
exe_malaga93 — 9 years ago(December 05, 2016 09:34 AM)
Mmmm.. I don't think is only his opinion. Me, and other comic-book readers also think it deviates way too much of what Superman represents, well specially BvS, which takes it to an extreme level. The character left me cold after the movie. Unless there's a radical change of attitude when he returns in JL, I'm afraid he's destined to be overshadowed by the others, specially WW and Aquaman, the latter may even be the standout. Not too mention that with if they stick to this take on the character, a solo franchise may be just as underwhelming.
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fourthwall1-2 — 9 years ago(December 05, 2016 07:53 PM)
superman shows remorse right after killing zod. I don't think people want superman to mope anymore. But killing zod had to be done. he wasn't going to stop killing people. Moving on.
There is no way of knowing superman killed the guy he went through the wall with. It looks like he tackles him, tumbling himelf throught he wall. but I'll agree its a fair criticism.
marvels timely buildup doe not really pay off with the avengers movie. Loki is a weak villain not worth popping in six or 8 films for. The alien invaders are like default sci fi channel pew pew laser blasting throw aways.
Avengers didn't even bring anything to the table to beat loki on their own. Iron man accidently brought the scientist back from lokis staff control by shooting the tesseract*. he didn't even know he did it when it was a plot detail that black widow punched Hawkeye in the head and knew she brought him back from lokis same control.
Without the nuke provided by the government, what were the avengers going to do by get tired and die from the hordes of invaders?
BvS had little to no story. I agree with peoples complaints. But what it was about was the worlds reaction to one man with god like power. Socially. Politically. religiously- then from the angle of Lex Luthor who wants to prove god/superman fallible. then you have batmans reaction. Good story. -
exe_malaga93 — 9 years ago(December 05, 2016 09:14 PM)
I couldn't care less about Supes killing criticism. I know he even did that a couple of times in some comics.
Anyway, as I said before DC seems to be rushing way too much in starting to build-up its live-action universe. Whether like Marvel or not, at least they took their time to introduce their characters. BvS just tried to fit and shoehorn too much in only two and a half hours, and don't get me started with Joker in SS. I don't think that paid off either.
And obviously, all that "deep" commentary is another problem with the film IMO, too much politics, social views, etc. and little story (BTW Superman is hated by more than half the world's population, but at the end he recieves a funeral with honors?). All that philosophical discussion didn't even elaborate in Luthor's motives, and why Batman is willing to kill a more powerful being (at least they could've shown Lex during the TV montage).
There have been better crossover stories in the comics and animated media: "Public Enemies" (both film and comic), "The Man Who Has Everything", "The Dark Night Returns", "Trinity", "Dark Knigth Over Metropolis", "Apocalypse" movie, etc. All cohesive reads and watches that didn't have to resort to have too much on it.
I want to like what DC and Warner are doing, they have characters with potential, but if they don't know how to use them in live-action, films are gonna suffer for it.