Theory about mum.
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SvR74 — 9 years ago(October 18, 2016 01:39 AM)
Without trying to be offensive to you
The Goddess of all Creation turned into a selfish manipulative b*tch, all philosophical sways and turns just died for me there. We see those everywhere and they look less old and plain than she does. There's no excuse for her typecasting on show or casting.
She is the opposite of Creation, she's Destruction. Can't help the only depiction of a 'strong' women a patriarchal society can muster up. I just stopped thinking about her. Oh, she's going to be nasty. Hmmm. OK. Nothing new.
Hmm, something else, bigger and worse comes along. OK. Nothing new there. If you take the procedural road, procedures will follow.
It would have been nice to see an actual Goddess Being thrown into Hell, that would have been a philosophical turn and how she finds her place back, if ever, but this family/cop-drama isn't showing anything new.
Mazikeen is the only one who doesn't look tired and worn-out in the new episodes, BTW. Hard to reconcile with heavenly-beings.
I forgot the show was on last week, caught up yesterday, didn't miss a thing. -
BasementKat — 9 years ago(October 18, 2016 06:53 AM)
SvR74, your comments express my own reaction most eloquently! I was hoping for so much more from the Goddess of All Creation - although not too much, I think, given who she supposedly is. I agree about Mazikeen. Although I still think Amenadiel has potential. But given the way the show is portraying her, I have pretty much given up on "Mom".
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delalluvia — 9 years ago(October 23, 2016 02:51 AM)
I was hoping for so much more from the Goddess of All Creation - although not too much, I think, given who she supposedly isBut given the way the show is portraying her, I have pretty much given up on "Mom".
Ditto
"Can you keep a secret? Can you know something and never speak of it again?" -
SvR74 — 9 years ago(November 28, 2016 09:28 AM)
Not sure to what you're responding.
I already explained before I didn't like her manipulative bitchy ways,
so intending to blow up the car of her son's beloved does exactly prove my point that she's NOT 'Goddess of all Creation' but of Destruction. -
BasementKat — 9 years ago(November 22, 2016 10:38 AM)
I thoroughly dislike her now. She has turned into the stereotypical powerful woman who
"must"
be conniving, manipulative, and without compassion. I feel that they need to either show the male god to be equally evil, or else have her gain a sense of compassion somehow. -
SvR74 — 9 years ago(November 28, 2016 09:37 AM)
I agree wholeheartedly with you.
I feel we all could use to see creative femininity in all it's glory since we see it so thoroughly suppressed if not abused in normal life and it barely gets to raise it's head above all the relational politics that are going on.
I'm saddened by this reflection on women. -
Henrietta_S — 9 years ago(November 28, 2016 08:27 PM)
But there is no telling yet if that won't happen. If Mum just came to earth and was entirely peachy, she would be BO-RING.
She needs character development. More episodes may develop her character in different directions. We'll see what happens.
Really, she hasn't had nearly enough screentime for anyone to have a solid reason to give up on her already. Just have some patience. -
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Henrietta_S — 9 years ago(November 30, 2016 08:00 PM)
So, basically, you want Mum to be a clich mother figure with no interests outside of her children's lives?
Linda helps Lucifer and her friends deal with their issues, because it is a part of her character to be a compasisonate and helpful person.
Mum is not focusing solely on her children's lives and issues because it is a part of her character to care about her own issues as well and to be selfish.
Besides that, yes, it would be incredibly boring if we'd have two Lindas. Because a show needs a variety of characters, not more of the same character just because they are pleasing to certain viewers. -
BasementKat — 9 years ago(December 02, 2016 06:47 AM)
So, basically, you want Mum to be a clich mother figure with no interests outside of her children's lives?
Not at all! First, given that she is the mother of all the angelic hosts, even if she had no interests outside their lives, that would still be a very broad range of interest. Add to that, she is the Goddess of all Creation, which expands her range of interest to the known universe, and perhaps beyond. So that's hardly clich.
Linda helps Lucifer and her friends deal with their issues, because it is a part of her character to be a compasisonate and helpful person.
See, I think Mom should also be compassionate and helpful. She could possess those qualities without being a clone of Linda.
Mum is not focusing solely on her children's lives and issues because it is a part of her character to care about her own issues as well and to be selfish.
She could have her own issues without being selfish. One big issue is the fact that her children, all of whom she claims to love, do not get along. Instead of trying to exploit their differences and insecurities for her own selfish ends, she could be trying to help them learn and grow as individuals. That would be a difficult, complex and challenging task.
Besides that, yes, it would be incredibly boring if we'd have two Lindas. Because a show needs a variety of characters, not more of the same character just because they are pleasing to certain viewers.
Again, being compassionate and helpful does not mean she must be a clone of Linda. She would have to be a very different character, in fact, given that Linda is a mere mortal at least, as far as we know at this point
whereas Lucifer's mother is a powerful goddess. But they could have been friends and even allies, and that would have been interesting. -
Henrietta_S — 9 years ago(December 02, 2016 12:54 PM)
Not at all! First, given that she is the mother of all the angelic hosts, even if she had no interests outside their lives, that would still be a very broad range of interest. Add to that, she is the Goddess of all Creation, which expands her range of interest to the known universe, and perhaps beyond. So that's hardly clich.
Except that it would make her the clich of a mother who defines herself through being a mother. The typical image of a mother goddess. A clich.
Add to that, what range of interest in this known universe and beyond are you talking about? The show keeps the story in Los Angeles, the stories revolve around Los Angeles and occasionally around beings from Heaven or Hell. That is it.
If Mum has an interest in something outside of that, not only would they have to introduce it first and create something new out of thin air, it would also have nothing whatsoever to do with the plot. And she is still a character inside a plot and serves to drive it forward.
See, I think Mom should also be compassionate and helpful. She could possess those qualities without being a clone of Linda.
Except that she would be.
Our main female characters:
Chloe Decker. Good cop, strict, but still compassionate and helpful.
Linda Martin. Good therapist, very compassionate, empathetic and helpful.
Ella Lopez. Weird nerd lady, funny, and compassionate and helpful.
Mazikeen. Sexed up, selfish, helpful towards those few who are her friends.
What you want sounds like "More of the same, please!", and that is BORING. We need a counterpart to Maze, someone who is selfish and not as helpful. Helpful when it suits her.
We already have such a lot of compassionate female characters who are still strong, whatever is wrong with a realistic woman who can be selfish AND strong at the same time?
Besides that, if Mum was compassionate and helpful, how would that whole not doing anything when Lucifer was cast into hell figure in? If she was as helpful as you want her, she would not have let that happen. And if she was as helpful as you want her and let it happen, then we would already know the answer to "Did God really want to kill Lucifer and did Mum really talk him down into just casting Lucifer into hell?".
And that is bad writing.
She could have her own issues without being selfish.
But there is nothing wrong with her being selfish!
One big issue is the fact that her children, all of whom she claims to love, do not get along. Instead of trying to exploit their differences and insecurities for her own selfish ends, she could be trying to help them learn and grow as individuals. That would be a difficult, complex and challenging task.
That is Linda's role. You do watch this show, right? It is Linda's role to help the others learn and grow as individuals, and her involvement with just a few characters, primarily Lucifer, influences the others thereby as well.
You ARE asking for a Linda-clone.
Again, being compassionate and helpful does not mean she must be a clone of Linda.
The way you propose she should be written like that, yes, it absolutely means that.
She would have to be a very different character, in fact, given that Linda is a mere mortal at least, as far as we know at this point whereas Lucifer's mother is a powerful goddess. But they could have been friends and even allies, and that would have been interesting.
And also boring. EVERY show has to have a character who creates conflict for their own agenda, especially if it fits into an overarching plotline for the season in question. It drives the plot forward, keeps it from stagnating, keeps it from being a feel-good crapshoot with no tension, and it keeps the audience guessing as to who is the bad guy.
Right now, Mum is the main candidate for the antagonist role for this season. We see no one else taking that role. Without her in that role, we would be at a case-of-the-week type of plotline without any tension, without anything interesting to the story.
Even if she ends up not being the main antagonist (and I do hope that they're not making Azrael into that), she keeps the show interesting simply by creating conflict. And the writers HAVE to have such a character, because you are not luring any audience in with feel-good wish fulfillment. -
BasementKat — 9 years ago(December 05, 2016 01:02 PM)
I think you make some very good points about creating an interesting plot and driving the action forward. I just think they should have used a different villain for that purpose.
whatever is wrong with a realistic woman who can be selfish AND strong at the same time?
Nothing, but IMHO making that selfish woman the Goddess of All Creation was not the way to go. Having a female villain is fine, if you balance her with an equally powerful male villain - or with an equally powerful, but unselfish heroic female character. Otherwise, it is sexist.
We need a counterpart to Maze, someone who is selfish and not as helpful. Helpful when it suits her.
For that, another demon might have worked. The idea of making her the Goddess of All Creation, was, IMO, a mistake. -
BasementKat — 9 years ago(November 29, 2016 07:02 AM)
I feel we all could use to see creative femininity in all it's glory since we see it so thoroughly suppressed if not abused in normal life and it barely gets to raise it's head above all the relational politics that are going on.
I'm saddened by this reflection on women.
^^This!
I am disappointed that the writers have decided to go the old-fashioned route, portraying a powerful woman to be insensitive and lacking compassion. I was hoping to see someone more like Linda - only a goddess.
I'm thinking about the scene at Lux where Linda expressed her gratitude for "all this" - the wonder of creation. Charlotte/Mom responded like a manipulative
human,
by trying to find out what Lucifer was telling Linda. And then Linda responded the way the
goddess
should have responded, by refusing to break faith! It's all messed up.
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readerf61 — 9 years ago(October 23, 2016 12:40 PM)
I admit, I wanted the Goddess of all Creation to be aware of the suffering of dying grasses in the drought as well as human suffering. I wanted a Gaia, Mother Earth, Brigit and any and all known names of goddesses throughout time. Since the language we speak is called our "mother tongue," I wanted her to speak every language ever spoken or signed. I wanted her to be sent to hell because her male aspect was jealous, and wanted to be the only God.
But that's just my personal belief system. I don't think we're going to get that in this show, but, unlike so many that are done with mum already, I'm willing to wait and see what we do get.
Although, I will be mightily pi$$ed if they make her a glorified b!tch.
No, David. No one is happy in a poodle skirt and a sweater set.
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centrd — 9 years ago(October 23, 2016 03:31 PM)
The whole thing about mom is a little confusing. If she's God's wife and created the angels, that's long before Earth was ever created. So Gaia and all those kinds of earth goddesses or any of the Greek or Norse Goddesses shouldn't apply because she existed long before any of them. In fact, in the comic, those gods all exist only because humans created them. They started dying off when humans stopped believing in them. Mom is a totally different level God, on par with God Himself. For some reason, she can't or doesn't know how to access her powers on earth in this human body. And having to use an actual dead human body doesn't make sense to me eithershe should just be able to create any form she wants if she's the goddess of all creation.
It doesn't really bother me that she's not exhibiting superpowers on Earth since Lucifer isn't either and he's supposed to be the second most powerful being in all of Creation. So if I can handle him not using his powers, I can handle Mom not using hers either.
I do think we'll probably see more from her that will make her more interesting and I definitely don't think they're going to make her a straight up bitch. Tricia has indicated that she didn't want to play anyone who was arch, and Joe assured her she would be a complex character, so I'm not worried about that.
"Angels are bright still, though the brightest fell." Shakespeare -
readerf61 — 9 years ago(October 23, 2016 03:55 PM)
Ah, centrd, in my fantasy, every goddess that has ever existed just borrows aspects from the one true goddess. She allows it because she's busy, and it keeps people happy to have a female volcano goddess or earth mother or whatever.
It's like the stories one tells children. You might tell them a very simplified version of The Odyssey, because it's a good story, but they're not ready to handle all the innuendoes and undercurrents of the story. We are the goddess' children, and she allows any story that will make us happy until we are ready for the big story.
Again, my mythology.
No, David. No one is happy in a poodle skirt and a sweater set.