Let's break down the main characters (character arc analysis/discussion)
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Marvel/DC
Lin301 — 9 years ago(August 16, 2016 03:04 AM)
I wasnt too excited about BvS when it came out in theatre, but I have seen the extended cut twice now and must say it is a great improvement and in my personal opinion, a highly engrossing movie (not without flaws though, but I dont want to get into those here). One of the things that made me appreciate this movie a lot more were some its character arcs, even though their execution could probably have been done better. Mostly based on personal observations, starting with my favorite part of the story:
Batman
What I found really interesting about the Batman in this story, something I didnt notice at first, is that Batman seems to have two origin stories in the beginning. First, there is the death of his parents. But secondly; there is the arrival of Superman in Metropolis. In both cases, Bruce is left powerless in the face of forces greater than him, which is probably the reason Supermans existence is so troublesome to him; it represents that uncontrollable force capable of destroying everything Bruce loves. The story then begins 18 months later and the Batman we see is not necessarily the Batman he has always been, as shown among other ways by that one guys quote theres a new kind of mean in him, hes angry and hes hunting and Alfred who expresses his concerns to Bruce on multiple occasions, suggesting he is not what he used to be ("That's how it starts, sir, the fever, the rage, the feeling of powerlessness that turns good men cruel"). Later of course we find out that all of Batmans actions are aimed at getting the kryptonite to destroy Superman, apparently by any means necessary. In this context, Batmans whole journey throughout this movie is a story of childhood trauma and redemption, which then finally comes during the infamous Martha scene. Although I wasnt a fan of how the dialogue was written, I think the scene as a whole was a great way to show how Batman realizes what he had become and that Superman was not that uncontrollable force by which he was traumatized so much as a child. This brings me to the second character arc;
Superman
Supermans arc already started in Man of Steel, where he was portrayed as a somewhat troubled guy dealing with his powers and the conflicting views of his fathers (in short; stay in the shadows v. stand in the light) and I think this arc was effectively continued in BvS. I especially liked how they stuck with the whole Superman in the real world take and showed Superman being perceived neither as an absolute Jesus-figure, nor as an absolute demon-figure, but rather as a mix of the two as they emphasize how people project their own messiah/devil images onto him. So again Clark is conflicted by multiple visions of who he is supposed to be and is basically just a guy trying to do the right thing. His arc then comes to conclusion during the Doomsday fight, where he, in my interpretation, seems to stop caring about how the world sees him and instead discovers what is truly important to him; Lois (you are my world).
Lex Luthor
Lots of negativity surrounding this character, but I thought he was actually an intriguing character and I even liked Jesse Eisenbergs portrayal (note that Im not a comic reader, nor do I have nostalgic feelings towards other interpretations of the character). We learn that he is actually Lex Luthor Junior who has inherited the Luthor fortune and also that he was, to some degree, abused by his father. Like Batman, Lex Luthor is thus also driven by childhood trauma, but unlike Batman; who sees Superman as the evil force that took his parents, Lex seems to view him as the savior that didnt show up. Lex therefore doesnt seem so much concerned with destroying Superman, but rather with exposing him under the reasoning if God is all-powerful, he cannot be all-good, and if he is all-good, he cannot be all-powerful). By setting up Batman v. Superman, regardless of the outcome, Lex will have proven his point (Superman kills Batman, God is not all-good v. Batman kills Superman, God is not all-powerful). Im not sure however how the creation of Doomsday fits into this interpretation. My best guess is that it was a failsafe in case of a third outcome, which as we saw also happened; neither Batman or Superman got killed so the question as to Superman God-likeness remains open. Therefore; if men wont kill God, the devil will do it.
Lois Lane
Now getting into the not so great character arcs. I didnt care much for Lois in Man of Steel, and after BvS, I have a much clearer idea as to why this is; she has no character arc. Yes, the writers seemed to have tried their hardest to make her a badass female character, but in the opening scene already she just came off as rude and arrogant to me. After that, she investigates the bullet she found, which mostly helps to further the plot when it needs to (revealing Lex Luthorss plan, revealing led in the wheelchairetc.). But as a character, we really dont learn that much about her except that she loves Superman, who by the way needs t -
DennisReynolds — 9 years ago(August 16, 2016 01:14 PM)
I like this analysis. I agree with most of what you're saying.
You have cynical Bruce Wayne who is trying to protect the human race from an inevitable extinction-level threat. You have idealistic Clark Kent who is trying to fight for truth and justice in a cynical world. And then you have egomaniacal Lex Luthor who is forcing these two people into conflict in an effort to prove himself superior to Superman. From a young age, Lex grew to hate the concept of "gods" (powerful and benevolent saviors that are worthy of worship). His entire plan centers around trying to destroy the idea of his world's god: Superman.
To Lex, Superman represents a lie. Some people claim that this is a stupid motivation, but there are really people out there who HATE the very idea of God. Lex is one of those people. It's important to him to "destroy" that concept because it means that he's truly in control of his own life. The fact that someone more powerful than him exists is a threat to him. He prides himself on being the smartest person on the planet. But next to Superman, that "power" (knowledge) is meaningless. With Doomsday, it's different, as Doomsday is a direct result of Lex's bioengineering. Egomaniacal Lex Luthor was under the impression that the "blood of his blood" would obey him. So if Lex thinks he can control Doomsday, it doesn't contradict his belief that gods are BS. Doomsday isn't a god. He's a monster that is created by the smartest guy in the world. Lex's Achilles heel is that he's overconfident. "I don't know how to lose."
I like the ideas that the movie kicks around, but my problems with it are centered around the execution. I do think it would have been good for Superman to have some more "positive" scenes. And I do think Jesse got a little over-the-top at times. But I still really like the movie.
A
Five-Star
Man | The
Golden
God -
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Lin301 — 9 years ago(December 03, 2016 01:40 AM)
i love this lex luthor because it shows what he is capable of with also showing his wackiness because that enthusiasm shows he can get away with so much which would probably explain the wackiness.
I had a strong feeling the wackiness was also due to his abusive and probably isolated upbringing. -
Flamboyant_Little_Devil — 9 years ago(December 03, 2016 04:12 AM)
Batman :
though had some good moments, we didn't need watch his parents death for the 10000th time. His "Martha" shtick was awful. His reasoning ["even if there is 1% chance"] was illogical and laughable.
Superman:
Emo, Moaning, bad reporter [seriously, the dude didn't know who Batman is?], underpowered to give Batman the edge and also a murder. And let us not forget the fact that he can hear Lois from distances but not his mother when she is kidnapped. Laughable.
Lex Luthor:
dindingdingdingdingding of pseudo-philosophy Jolly Ranchers. Idiotic, embarrassing and needless.
Lois Lane:
desperate for suicide. Nuff said.
Wonder Woman:
No reason to be in the movie whatsoever.
Trollsday: yet another needless shtick and a far cry from the whole point of Doomsday.
Head-Shot-Jimmy:
Jimmy got head shot.
JL members trailers:
eye rolling moments
This is one of those lost opportunity movies that will never allow any other attempt to get things right. Way too many needless things thrown in just because. Way too much moodiness because someone had the bright idea that putting dark filters on a camera equals "mature" and "serious". Meanwhile CW had the basic premise and while it did the exact opposite [lightened mood, goofy at times] it was successful. -
OdumC — 9 years ago(December 03, 2016 05:13 PM)
Snyder said there just wasn't room for Jimmy Olson in this universe, so he thought he'd have some fun with the character. and shoot him in the head.
a decades old Superman icon, and snyder thinks for fun, why not shoot him in the head.
Not kidding. google it.Thanks to Batmeh v Supermeh Yawn of Justice, the "S" now stands for Sidekick -
Gadget110 — 9 years ago(December 03, 2016 05:47 PM)
..Are you beep serious ?!, wow see this is just another example of Snyder showing he hates "Superman", does not care about the source material, and needs to be booted out ASAP if DC ever hopes to make a great film in their connected universe.
That guy at the beginning of the film was way to old to be "Jimmy Olsen" and acted nothing like him the full 10-15 seconds he was on screen.
"Always two there are , a master and an apprentice" -
OdumC — 9 years ago(December 03, 2016 05:58 PM)
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/batman-v-superman-zack-snyder-explains-why-he-killed-off-jimmy-olsen-a6954956.html
We just did it as this little aside because we had been tracking where we thought the movies were gonna go, he told EW. And we dont have room for Jimmy Olsen in our big pantheon of characters, but we can have fun with him, right?
Let's not mention they had room for Lombard the sleaze trolling the interns and Jenny the intern herself, but no room for a decades old staple in Superman lore
But Snyders idea of fun is shooting an iconic character in the head.Thanks to Batmeh v Supermeh Yawn of Justice, the "S" now stands for Sidekick -
Gadget110 — 9 years ago(December 03, 2016 06:03 PM)
I have to ask this then, why DC fans are you not outraged and saying "beep you" to DC when they allow Snyder to wipe his ass with the source material like this ?
Marvel fans were not happy with IM 2 and 3 not being much better then just meeting the standard and Marvel stepped up their game seeing how the fans were not afraid to tell them exactly what they thought.
Do not let DC and Snyder walk up and down your asses, demand better, do not accept and support garbage just cause it's a DC hero.
"Always two there are , a master and an apprentice" -
OdumC — 9 years ago(December 03, 2016 06:07 PM)
why DC fans are you not outraged and saying "beep you" to DC when they allow Snyder to wipe his ass with the source material like this ?
The real fans are.
And we're called trolls for doing so.Thanks to Batmeh v Supermeh Yawn of Justice, the "S" now stands for Sidekick -
heatvision38 — 9 years ago(December 03, 2016 05:25 PM)
Batman
What I found really interesting about the Batman in this story, something I didnt notice at first, is that Batman seems to have two origin stories in the beginning. First, there is the death of his parents. But secondly; there is the arrival of Superman in Metropolis. In both cases, Bruce is left powerless in the face of forces greater than him, which is probably the reason Supermans existence is so troublesome to him; it represents that uncontrollable force capable of destroying everything Bruce loves. The story then begins 18 months later and the Batman we see is not necessarily the Batman he has always been, as shown among other ways by that one guys quote theres a new kind of mean in him, hes angry and hes hunting and Alfred who expresses his concerns to Bruce on multiple occasions, suggesting he is not what he used to be ("That's how it starts, sir, the fever, the rage, the feeling of powerlessness that turns good men cruel"). Later of course we find out that all of Batmans actions are aimed at getting the kryptonite to destroy Superman, apparently by any means necessary. In this context, Batmans whole journey throughout this movie is a story of childhood trauma and redemption, which then finally comes during the infamous Martha scene. Although I wasnt a fan of how the dialogue was written, I think the scene as a whole was a great way to show how Batman realizes what he had become and that Superman was not that uncontrollable force by which he was traumatized so much as a child. This brings me to the second character arc;
And this is further illustrated by one of Bruce's dreams. Some people think his dreams had no purpose, and this isn't true (ok, the Knightmare scene is more about the future of the franchise, but the others have relevance within this movie). The one where he is attacked by the bat creature, it's an illustration of how Batman is losing his conscience, his sense of purpose. On the surface, it still works as a sign of how damaged Bruce is in general, as it acts to show he has these nightmares and struggles with PTSD, that he's always thinking about his parents and their death, and that when he wakes up, there's pills and alcohol showing just how human and disturbed this version of Bruce is rather than the perfect Batgod that some people want to see.
But taking it further with regards to dream analysis, when dream Bruce walks into the mausoleum, you see that only his mother's name is shown, that his father's name is obscured by the flowers. Then Bruce, who is in full Bruce Wayne clothing, is attacked by a bat creature coming from his mother's tomb. Some people think this is something to do with the Manbat, but it's not. The dream represents Bruce's subconscious working through the fact that he is losing himself, who he is, what he's about. You have Bruce the man in front of his mother's tomb, his mother's name being the last thing he hears before his parents die, and then the bat creature, which represents the Bat part of Batman, Batman completely removed from the human Bruce, swallowing up the man. It shows deep down Bruce's fears that he is losing who he is, sort of like the line in Batman Begins when Alfred says, "You are losing yourself in this monster you have created." This dream shows that's what's going on with Bruce, that war of who he is, the Bat or the Man. By the time he fights with Superman, the Bat is winning, but it isn't until Clark begs for someone else's life, this being that Batman has set out to destroy (not kill, but destroy, according to Bruce's own words, which shows how he views Superman, as a thing, a creature, not a person), cares about someone more than himself. This along with Lois running in to tell Bruce Martha is his mother, snaps Batman out of his laser focused hunt of Superman these past two years, giving him a moment to reflect on what he's been doing, and then realizing Lex has been playing him all along. When Batman throws the K spear away, Bruce comes back, allowing him to be batMAN rather than BATman. -
MydnightRose — 9 years ago(December 04, 2016 11:44 AM)
Fantastic analysis and I even agree with some of your ideas about the weak character arcs especially when it comes to Lois. She had no real personality except 1. Reporter 2. Loves her boyfriend.
This is not helped by Amy being bland in the role.
I do feel this movies was a Superman film that featured Batman, but Superman was not given enough personality to capture the audience. They do his look and powers well, but something is lacking in the actual person.
I do think WW had a weak character arc but her role is essentially thr Black Widow role in IM2; just there to be hott and kick a$$. I do think her last lines about walking away from the world do help to give her some purpose. On the plain she wants to maintain her distance but she can't ignore what is going on and has to help.- BVS 2. TWS 3. Avengers
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Internet-Police — 9 years ago(December 05, 2016 09:09 AM)
Lex Luthor isn't Junior but his dad has always existed and was not portrayed as an evil mastermind, just a guy who doesn't give a crap about the impact his choices made on other people.
I wish this Lex wasn't played as a crazyman and a guy who only starting caring about Superman when he starting getting in the way of his plans.
Worst Lex ever, IMO.
