I've never seen anything in she's been in. All I know is that she's Judy Garland's daughter.
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Liza Minnelli
kirstyknight — 17 years ago(March 10, 2009 06:18 AM)
I've never seen anything in she's been in. All I know is that she's Judy Garland's daughter.
I've seen a few movies/tv shows where they have made fun of her.
Why is that? -
bullandbetty — 17 years ago(March 10, 2009 12:44 PM)
Liza is the consummate performer and an incredibly talented singer, dancer, actor.
But she does have her faults, and they have made for many a tabloid headline. She has had serious problems with addictions to drugs and alcohol. Because these problems were shared with her very famous mother, it became quite the issue to watch with Liza ("Will Judy's daughter follow in her tragic footsteps?". ) Seems lots of folks especially the entertainment media, which seems to thrive on drama are always looking for a good story about some famous person's downfall. Maybe it makes all of us "regular" people the "spectators," as it were feel superior.
Then there's Liza's most recent (2002-2003) marriage debacle, which made for wonderful (!) tabloid headlines.
And finally, Liza has never had a problem showing her vulnerable side, so she doesn't go to great depths to hide the "dramas" of her life in the public eye. -
rhinestone_sunglasses — 17 years ago(March 12, 2009 09:51 PM)
not so much for her alcohol addiction but her constant celebri-clumsinessmarrying like two gay men in a row, performing some pretty sets on the late show in the past eight years and just overall resembling a lizardI love LizaI know what I said is mean, but I don't think that. I love her music and I think she's pretty energetic and funny. I just think for a lot of people seeing her for the first time they would be put off by her looks and demeanor.
Doncha know me Jim? I'm not Margret, I'm Edie. I didn't kill Frank DeLorca. -
bullandbetty — 17 years ago(March 13, 2009 11:19 PM)
"Marrying two gay men in a row"???? NOT. #1 Peter Allen, yes. #2 Jack Haley, not. #3 Mark Gero, not. #4 David Gest rumor only; and only then because he seems to be creepy in general, and some people like to equate being gay with being creepy (NOT). So unless you have personally had gay sex with either #1,2,or 3, you might do well to refrain from perpetuating mere rumor. Come to think of it, part of the reason some people make fun of Liza is because they pay too much attention to the people who are perpetuating the rumors!!
As for Liza "resembling a lizard" and people being "put off by her looks," well, all I can say is beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And this particular beholder just happens to disagree heartily with you. -
PhantomPhan222 — 17 years ago(March 18, 2009 03:54 AM)
""Marrying two gay men in a row"???? NOT. #1 Peter Allen, yes. #2 Jack Haley, not. #3 Mark Gero, not. #4 David Gest rumor only; and only then 2000because he seems to be creepy in general, and some people like to equate being gay with being creepy (NOT). So unless you have personally had gay sex with either #1,2,or 3, you might do well to refrain from perpetuating mere rumor. Come to think of it, part of the reason some people make fun of Liza is because they pay too much attention to the people who are perpetuating the rumors!!"
I think you need to calm down. I think the poster you're replying to just got his/her wires crossed and mad a simple misunderstanding; it's quite well known that both Garland and Minelli married gay men at some point in their lives. If you glanced at that fact on the internet or overheard someone saying it the main bits you'd remember would be: "two gay men", "married" and "Liza Minelli" and you might just assume that Minelli married two gay men. It's a simple mistake.
"People always sing 'Part of Your World' at auditions that's why I only know one lyric." -
huweyjenkins — 17 years ago(March 24, 2009 06:35 AM)
Possibly people are jealous of her great talent. She's been through the wringer emotionally and has made some strange personal decisions but Liza has added immeasurably to the gaiety of the nation and she is a class act to boot. Oh and did I mention she's Judy Garland's daughter and she may have Judy's addictive gene.
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rhinestone_sunglasses — 17 years ago(March 25, 2009 11:04 PM)
may i ask you bullandbettywhat good is sittingall alone in your room.coooommmmeeee here the music plaaaaay.
You're right, I'm a complete douche.
Good day!
Liza is a babe.
Doncha know me Jim? I'm not Margret, I'm Edie. I didn't kill Frank DeLorca. -
bullandbetty — 17 years ago(March 25, 2009 11:18 PM)
You're right, Rhinestone: I do need to get out more. If only Liza would lure me in with her outstretched hand ("Come"), I would definetly go out and hear the music play.
But don't even get me started on your use of the term "douche."
Later, dude. -
jimellis — 16 years ago(May 07, 2009 12:05 AM)
'Marrying two gay men in a row"???? NOT. #1 Peter Allen, yes. #2 Jack Haley, not. #3 Mark Gero, not. #4 David Gest rumor only; and only then because he seems to be creepy in general, and some people like to equate being gay with being creepy (NOT). So unless you have personally had gay sex with either #1,2,or 3, you might do well to refrain from perpetuating mere rumor. Come to think of it, part of the reason some people make fun of Liza is because they pay too much attention to the people who are perpetuating the rumors'
Would you settle for the word 'bisexual".
Her mother did the same thing with two men,including Liza'a father.
What's even more important is 60 yr old women who marry men 20 yrs their junior and trust them,. Now that's called: naive. -
bullandbetty — 16 years ago(May 07, 2009 01:47 AM)
"Her mother did the same thing with two men,including Liza'a father."
Yes, as did Liza's grandmother before Judy. (BTW, who was Judy's other gay/bisexual dalliance?)
But where do you get so much "bisexuality" in Liza's case? Peter actually was pretty much gay, as far as I can tell. It just wasn't as easy to accept in oneself nor admit to others back in 1967. Being gay but marrying someone of the opposite sex does not a bisexual make. As a matter of fact, quite common back in the day.
Who else you think was "bisexual?" Jack Haley, Jr.? Uh, I'd like to see some documentation on that; or even just hearsay. Mark Gero? Uh, don't think so there eithe5b4r. David Gest? Who the hell knows and, furthermore, who the hell cares? As Liza herself jokes in her usual self-deprecating way she was "recovering from encephalitis, for chrissakes!" When she contracted this life-threatening virus in 2000, doctors told her she might never walk or talk again. Then in ~October 2001 she meets Gest. Six months later they marry. You think it was mere naivety? Cut the lady some slack. How many brain cells you think you might have sacrificed under the same circumstances? Most likely she was not entirely in control of her life so soon after her illness and also most likey found it quite alluring to have someone enter her life who could take control and not only get her back on the road to recovery, but to a full return to her career.
And for the record, Liza was 53 when she married Gest, who is a mere 7 years her junior a far cry from your exaggerated "20 yrs."
Back to you. -
jimellis — 16 years ago(May 07, 2009 11:37 AM)
But where do you get so much "bisexuality" in Liza's case? Peter actually was pretty much gay, as far as I can tell. It just wasn't as easy to accept in oneself nor admit to others back in 1967. Being gay but marrying someone of the opposite sex does not a bisexual make. As a matter of fact, quite common back in the day.
If her husband is engaging in sex with her,doesn't that a bisexual make(?)
A man who is "pretty much gay" wouldn't be having sex wth a woman.
People get confused and think being gay is a choice,as in "I like sex with men and woman, but I like it with men more".
People who are straight are not remotely interested in the same sex,why can't it be true for homosexuals?
I didn't comment on Jack Haley or Mark Gero,that was another user.
Thanks. -
bullandbetty — 16 years ago(May 07, 2009 12:50 PM)
"If her husband is engaging in sex with her,doesn't that a bisexual make(?)"
My point of view is that oftentimes usually due to social pressure and/or internalized homophobia a person might marry a person of the opposite sex, but not really "want" the sex part because they are essentially attracted to the same sex. I believe that two people can love each other, be best friends, and even feel like soulmates and therefore marry on the basis of all that but still not be attracted sexually.
As for Liza and Peter, well I can't know. But now I am possibly going to have to eat most of my preceeding words, because you have forced me into reviewing my "research," and in doing so found the 1996 interview Liza did with "Advocate" magazine. She says she had no idea he was gay until three weeks into the marriage even though they had been living together for two years! when she walked in on the evidence. Furthermore (and here's where I begin the proverbial eating of the words), she says, "We were great friends, we adored each other, and we had a wonderful sex life." Peter's not around for me to ask if he felt the same about the latter. But as far as I've ever heard, he never had another woman.
Can we call a stalemate? Or are you going to demand a full and grovelling retraction of my entire exb68pose?
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jimellis — 16 years ago(May 07, 2009 02:04 PM)
M'y point of view is that oftentimes usually due to social pressure and/or internalized homophobia a person might marry a person of the opposite sex, but not really "want" the sex part because they are essentially attracted to the same sex. I believe that two people can love each other, be best friends, and even feel like soulmates and therefore marry on the basis of all that but still not be attracted sexually.'
I think it's positive to discuss; we are not arguing
Here is the confusion: there seems to ne a form of double standard.
If 2 people marry,and don't have sex,then of course the husband can be a full-fledged homosexual.
But if they do have sex, the physical sexual-act is not something a true-homosexual can so,in the reciprocal-way a true hetrosexual couldn't.
I don't believe we are degrees of "bisexual", l16d0ike some people claim.
Now,if Peter Allen and Liza had a wonderful sex life, he was bisexual by definiton. -
bullandbetty — 16 years ago(May 07, 2009 02:27 PM)
Well, I don't know about "degrees of bisexual." Will have to think on that to see where I stand.
And yes, if Peter were to say that he and Liza had a great sex life and were to say this while being out of the closet (i.e., no need for keeping up hetero appearances), then yeah, that'd sound pretty darn bisexual. But I don't know that he ever claimed as much.
Now, about 2 people of opposite sex having sex: I do think a gay man could have sex with a woman, specfically (and excuse me for graphically spelling it out) if it were anal sex. I don't think when you're comtemplating penetrating someone's butt (is this getting to be a bit too much?!)it matters a whole heckuva lot whether the butt belongs to a man or a woman. Hell, I don't know. And I really will never know because, owing my particular combination of gender and sexual orientation, these experiences are out of my realm. I can only hypothesize. But it's a good conversation, no?
And what would Liza think were she to know she has inspired such dialogue? She'd probably laugh her ass off! -
jimellis — 16 years ago(May 07, 2009 03:29 PM)
N'ow, about 2 people of opposite sex having sex: I do think a gay man could have sex with a woman, specfically (and excuse me for graphically spelling it out) if it were anal sex. I don't think when you're comtemplating penetrating someone's butt (is this getting to be a bit too much?!)it matters a whole heckuva lot whether the butt belongs to a man or a woman'
But that would mean that the sexual-identity doesn't matter; it does.
Sex isn't just a physical act,but a cerebral one,since sex is just as much a psychological entity.
To be consi5b4tent with your comment would mean a man(or woman) would be interested in the same-sex for oral-sex as long as it feels gooddoesn't work that way. -
bullandbetty — 16 years ago(May 07, 2009 05:55 PM)
Actually I do think it works that way. And I do believe arousal is brought about by different stimuli for men and woman. Not across the board, but as a general rule, I do believe arousal for woman involves a more complex interplay of physical, emotional, and psychological factors. As for men.all they need (again, as a general rule) is a dirty mag in order to respond "sexually" at the sperm clinic.
BTW, we all so off-track that I won't surprised if we get our wrists slapped any minute now for contributing "inappropriate" messages. This a Liza board afterall. And I know we did earnestly start with her; but my have we strayed! Hopefully it's all good or at least "they" b68give us some warning before banning us from this sphere.
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jimellis — 16 years ago(May 07, 2009 06:06 PM)
'As for men.all they need (again, as a general rule) is a dirty mag in order to respond "sexually" at the sperm clinic.'
Yes, but what type of magazine? A magazine of naked women. AND do the particular dirty-pics turn him on(?) Men are not that animal-like.
I think the notion that women need more 'complex interplay' is very exaggerated; if that were true, prostitutes would not be able to perform as promtly as they do.
Seems to me it would depend on the individual woman.
And men don't just aroused because of physical stimuli..they need an emotional-compotent also,or they would be aroused any by ANY female. -
bullandbetty — 16 years ago(May 07, 2009 06:12 PM)
Oh, where to start with this one? How bout this: a prostitute's "performance" has very little to do with arousal. It's a job; it's acting.
As for "Yes, but what type of magazine? A magazine of naked women." Not necessarily. Gays guys are just as welcome to donate at the bank. So if it takes a mag of naked men to do the job, so be it.
Who am I? Dr. Ruth?! -
jimellis — 16 years ago(May 07, 2009 11:54 PM)
"Oh, where to start with this one? How bout this: a prostitute's "performance" has 5b4very little to do with arousal. It's a job; it's acting.
As for "Yes, but what type of magazine? A magazine of naked women." Not necessarily. Gays guys are just as welcome to donate at the bank. So if it takes a mag of naked men to do the job, so be it".
My point is that notjust ANY magazine will sufficeit depends on whose pictures are inside. In other words, not every straight man is going to be aroused by a magazine of naked women.
Men are very visual,you're right but I think we also downplay women's sense of visual.
Women are more inhibited to admit their carnal-desires because of our double-standard. Don't you think?