How come Vertigo replaced this as #1 on the Sight & Sound poll?
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theuserformerlyknownasfrantruff — 9 years ago(January 05, 2017 08:03 AM)
Yep, it's the ultimate story of artistic integrity vs pressure form the producers. Sometimes it's overromanticized to the point it's almost impossible to separate the "Orson Welles Narrative" from his films. The man was hardly the only one to find difficulties in getting funding for his films. One thing I'm glad about CK being "dethroned" is that it might led to the hagiography around Orson's "unfulfilled potential" decreasing and people finally praising him for his actual accomplishments. Though that's probably wishful thinking. In the wider critic-aproved narrative, he'll probably forever remain "the guy who did 'CK' and then saw the producers destroy 'Ambersons' and 'Touch of Evil'", rather than the guy who did extraordinary and innovative films like "Othello" and "F For Fake" after Kane.
By the way, Casablanca and Rules both have their own fairly interesting narratives. The first one is "the exception to the Auteur theory" and "basically made itself", while the second one is almost always seen as a prelude to WWII, was banned by the Nazis, was the last (before exile) and least-succesful picture of a man who had spend the previous decade making highly succesful ones and offended the French society so much someone tried to burn down the theater it was playing in its opening night (I think Renoir described all of this as "Dancing on a volcano").
CFK says Rosebud twice. The first one at the very beginning of the film and the second one during the butler's flashback, after trashing Susan's room. -
moviemadness2012 — 10 years ago(March 17, 2016 11:33 AM)
It was not a surprise to many because in past S&S polls, Vertigo had been gaining on CK in votes. In the 2002 poll, Vertigo only trailed by a few votes. So many people including myself actually predicted a Vertigo victory in 2012. Maybe the newer generations of critics have different tastes. In the coming years or decades, Vertigo will likewise be overtaken by another film.
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thefly50 — 11 years ago(March 17, 2015 10:00 PM)
Personally speaking, I think Vertigo has no place at the top spot. I know that many people don't like Citizen Kane, but it simply deserves the #1 spot. It is the most important film ever made, and it comes as close to perfection as human art can.
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MsELLERYqueen2 — 11 years ago(March 17, 2015 10:59 PM)
I like
Vertigo
, but I think that it's not one of Hitchcock's very best. I prefer
Rope
.
Given a choice between
Citizen Kane
and
Who's Minding the Mint
(1967), I'll take
Who's Minding the Mint
in a second (along with the adorable leading actor).
~~
JimHutton (1934-79) and ElleryQueen -
thefly50 — 11 years ago(March 18, 2015 09:32 AM)
I
do
think Vertigo is one of Hitchcock's best, but not
the
best (No. 1 is Rear Window, No. 2 is North by Northwest, Vertigo is a solid No. 3). It is his most radical and perhaps even the most personal, but not the best.
And I thought I'm the only one who has seen that obscurity, Who's Minding the Mint. From what I can remember (which is not much), it was a caper-comedy of sorts, I think, with the actor that appears on your signature. I caught it on TV (as I did with CK), and I didn't really like it. I didn't find it funny at all. But hey, if you love it that much, more power to you! -
thefly50 — 11 years ago(March 18, 2015 02:51 PM)
I've never been much into old Hollywood (or its modern counterpart, for that matter), other than exactly those kinds of films that get film snobs like myself a massive erection. I don't remember when was the last time I watched a Golden Age obscurity, one that wasn't released by The Criterion Collection and/or made by Welles/Capra/Wilder/Wyler/Sturges/Mankiewicz/any of the other big ones.
I am generally more acquainted with French cinema of the time, and even in that field I'm sure few of these films approach obscurity. Simply put, I still haven't watched all the classics so I can move on to stuff less well-known. -
thomas-begen-194-976045 — 10 years ago(May 05, 2015 02:25 PM)
Personally, I think Hitchcock messed the bed on "Vertigo." Stewart and Novak were miscast as far as I'm concerned. Not unlike many of his films, Hitchcock doesn't seem to know how to end "Vertigo." The ending ruined an already poor film for me. I take very little away from "Vertigo" in the way of meaning or a moral.
Since you're a Hitch fan, what about "Rebecca" and "The Birds"? Personally, those are two of my favorite Hitchcock films. I like "North By Northwest," but I feel "Psycho" and "Rear Window" are probably the his overrated. -
thomas-begen-194-976045 — 10 years ago(May 06, 2015 11:41 AM)
Since this question is hypothetical, I'll try to answer it as best I can and briefly. By the time of "Vertigo," Veronica was no longer relevant. She ceased to be relevant with the end of the 1940s. Since you mention it, if it were possible, I think Lake in her prime would've been much better than Kim Novak, who I am adamant was miscast. Come to think of it, I wonder why Lake was never cast in a Hitchcock film, given she was a beautiful Hitchcockian blonde. Perhaps it was her height or due to contracts. I think she would have done fine in one of his films.
Since what you're asking was basically impossible because Lake was no longer relevant in the early- to mid-1950s, I have a few other suggestions. On IMDB's "Vertigo" page it states Hitch wanted Vera Miles for the part. I believe she would have been a much better fit. However, a better Hitchcock blonde may've been Tippi Hedren, who would star in "Marnie" and "The Birds" only a few years later. He also remarks that James Stewart was too old for the part, which I agree. I don't have any suggestions except that I definitely wouldn't want Cary Grant in another movie making out with a woman half his age.
All that said, these casting choices weren't the only thing wrong with this movie. I believe much of it was poorly executed, especially the ending, which people either love or hate. Originally, "Vertigo" got slammed. It's only recently that it's been considered one of Hitch's great films. I'm more of a classicist and I have to disagree. I don't think very highly of "Citizen Kane" but if the battle for first on Sight and Sound's list of great films is between these two films I would have to side with "Citizen Kane."
By the way, Veronica Lake is in no way my favorite actress or the one I find most beautiful. I just like the picture. I'll change it soon enough. -
thefly50 — 11 years ago(March 18, 2015 09:20 AM)
I was just thinking about that (Even without your comment). I was quite tired when writing that. Sorry. Yes, I guess you're right. But Griffith's film is one that has aged
atrociously
. The length, the racism, and pretty much everything else in it prevents me from recommending it to anyone but people who are interested in the history of cinema. It is a relic, a monument. Its sole worth nowadays is historical (And I'll be damned before saying such a thing about Citizen Kane). It's (rightly) accused of racism, and its reputation perhaps made people forget that there have been feature films way before it (The Story of the Kelly Gang), and even in America (The Squaw Man, anyone?). But yeah, BoaN is a more important film than CK. -
HotDogBox — 9 years ago(June 01, 2016 01:09 PM)
"It is the most important film ever made,"
The most important film ever made is The Horse in Motion, being the first film and predating the motion camera, followed by the actual first recorded movies. Neither Vertigo or Citizen Kane would exist without them.
"and it comes as close to perfection as human art can."
How is Kane a bigger achievement than the music of great classical compositors? Than the best of the best sculptors?
Heck, is it even bestter than the best sequential art magazine ever made(or in lesser words, a comicbook?).
You can't compare art like that, not across lines. Thinking you can only makes it look silly when you try to prop up something as the be all end all of everything.