A few things I don't understand… (Spoilers)
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Stratego — 9 years ago(September 02, 2016 03:20 PM)
Like you said yourself, "If we're to allow that the post-lineup scene in the holding cell actually happened". Why should we? There's no reason to believe it really happened. Since it was all a set-up, MacManus probably never brought up the heist job either, it was most likely Verbal who did.
But as I said, if he did spend time in jail, he did it to establish a connection to Keaton. -
Tony_Silvio — 9 years ago(September 02, 2016 03:32 PM)
Yeah, I am definitely not convinced that part actually happened, but if anything in the movie was depicted accurately, up to that point was probably it. We're pretty much arguing nothing now, haha. Good chatting with you!
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Klockard23 — 9 years ago(July 15, 2016 04:20 PM)
No piece of evidence except Keaton calling him Soze in the opening scene, and the fact that Soze in that scene has all the items that Verbal asks for at the end - gold watch, gold lighter, cigarettes, etc. Plus, the way the movie is edited at the end with cuts between Kujan talking about Soze and revealing to us that Verbal isn't quite the crippled weakling we've been lead to believe is obviously the film telling you that Verbal is Soze.
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sesquick-seabag — 9 years ago(July 15, 2016 05:30 PM)
None of that stuff actually positively ID's him as Soze, though.
Keaton calling him Soze in the opening scene
Keaton doesn't have any ID for Soze though. He's just assuming that the guy who tricked him all along about being a hapless petty conman and cripple must be the guy pulling the strings.
and the fact that Soze in that scene has all the items that Verbal asks for at the end - gold watch, gold lighter, cigarettes, etc.
Just means he was the guy who shot Keaton, not that his real identity is Keyser Soze.
the way the movie is edited at the end with cuts between Kujan talking about Soze and revealing to us that Verbal isn't quite the crippled weakling we've been lead to believe is obviously the film telling you that Verbal is Soze.
All that logically implies is that Verbal is lying about being a cripple. There's no unavoidable logical pathway from lying about being a cripple, and lying about being a stupid petty crook, to being Person X. All it implies in-and-of-itself is he's misrepresenting himself.
So the interpretation that Verbal is a hitman and spy in Soze's employ remains equally plausible. -
Klockard23 — 9 years ago(July 15, 2016 06:36 PM)
The movie is clearly communicating to you with editing and visuals that Verbal is Soze. If you lack the most basic insight to get that, that's your issue. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.
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sesquick-seabag — 9 years ago(July 15, 2016 06:55 PM)
Now, now, little child. No need for the abusiveness. And, no, the "visuals and editing" don't explicitly confirm any such thing, as I said. If you think it does it's you, not I, who lacks logic. I won't go over the points I previously made, because you probably didn't even read them in the first place. But they still stand and you failed to dispute any of them.
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Klockard23 — 9 years ago(July 15, 2016 07:18 PM)
Your points are weak as hell and not even worthy of consideration. And yes, the way the movie is cut together, it is clearly telling you, the audience, that you're supposed to think Verbal is Soze. Anyone with common sense should be able to "get" that and come away from the film thinking that without having subtitles slapped on the screen telling you. It's all right there, even right down to a man who knows what Soze looks like describing a sketch that looks exactly like Kent.
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sesquick-seabag — 9 years ago(July 15, 2016 07:53 PM)
Not necessarily, no. And your vindictiveness doesn't lend any substance to what you say. All "the way the movie is cut together" - by which I presume you mean the montage of Kujan reading notice board, Kint walking out of the station, the zoom-in on the name Kobayashi on the base of the coffee-cup, Kobayashi picking Verbal up - clearly shows is that a) Verbal isn't a cripple, b) he took names off the notice board, c) he's in cahoots with the guy (whom he called Kobayashi) who made the proposition to the gang on Soze's behalf. In other words, he's not who he says he is. Not that he necessarily IS Keyser Soze - or even that there's necessarily any such person. The sketch is the most compelling piece of evidence but even then it's can't seriously be considered conclusive beyond any reasonable doubt. The Hungarian was delirious, and it's not made manifestly clear that Soze's real identity was made known to him. He saw Verbal "in the harbour, killing many men" - that's only evidence that he was the gunman, not that his real identity is Keyser Soze. I mean the writer has said that Verbal=Soze isn't the only reasonable interpretation for gods' sake! So your nastiness is plain out of order.