At what point did Alanzo decide to kill Jake?
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liquidsouther — 10 years ago(August 17, 2015 04:13 AM)
I think Alonzo wanted to kill Jake from the very beginning of his plan, but was not, IMHO, exactly sure when, especially after he immediately found out that this was no ordinary, corruptable rookie. I like to think that he finally set the things in motion after Roger's murder.
ALTOBELLO YOU beep!! -
ChocolateFrankenstein — 10 years ago(August 26, 2015 11:20 AM)
My guess is Alonzo decided to kill Jake when Jake first refused to take the drug money. Once Jake refused him a second time that was the last straw for Alonzo.
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness. -
jawsfan007 — 10 years ago(August 26, 2015 06:00 PM)
Alonzo thought Jake would turn, but after refusing the money and Jake not really going along with roger's murder. Before he gets in the car to give the speech, you can hear him talking to smiley "make sure the tub is clean. "
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Sturm_Liouville — 10 years ago(November 01, 2015 11:58 AM)
It was after jake decided not to kill the drug dealer and pointed a gun to alonzos head etc. You can hear alonzo talking to hillside treses or whatever in the car before the speech. He mentions to the person to make sure to clean his bathtub. This is where the gang took jake to blow his brains out with a shotgun.
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SirMozman — 10 years ago(November 15, 2015 10:58 AM)
Another one for the not taking the money.
Alonzo was stressed as hell and thought he was a dead man walking. Then when the three wise men said he could tax someone his eyes lit up and he saw salvation. As a guy above said, when Jake said "I will do anything you want me to do" I think Alonzo thought Jake could be corrupted. Then he saw Jake's fighting ability and eagle eye. He would be a excellent addition to his crew. The quickness and intensity of assembling his crew and the fact that Alonzo wanted Jake long term meant he took the chance of throwing him in the deep end and testing out his corruptibility.
I think Alonzo was so disappointed when Jake didnt take the money that his "I'll hold it for you" line was genuine. It was a big ask for Jake to take the cash when only knowing all of them for a few hours. Then when Alonzo shot Roger and Jake reacted like he did, Alonzo knew he had to kill him and that he was not going to be corrupted. He then made the call. I dont believe for one second that Alonzo has planned to kill Jake all along. It doesnt make any sense. Why have the fallout of a Cop dying on his watch and the beep that would have escalated as a result. If Jake didnt show so much potential during the day then Alonzo would have probably sent him home. Alonzo got Jake to smoke the PCP/Weed simply to stop Jake from reporting Alonzo to the big wigs for his illegal activity up to the Sandman raid. Jake knew his career was over if Alozon got him piss tested which he knew Alonzo could make happen with his reputation and contacts. -
moviefool09 — 10 years ago(January 22, 2016 09:32 PM)
Having this in mind, then I think that Alonzo want to kill him before anything, since the beginning. He want to use Jake and then dispose him.
BINGO. I almost think the opposite of what most people do- I think all day Alonzo was looking for a reason NOT to kill Jake and couldn't find one. He was going to do whatever it took to get out of his entanglement with the Wise Men and if Jake didn't help him and do EVERYTHING he asked, he would not survive the day.
"The future is tape, videotape, and NOT film?" -
helloweed — 10 years ago(January 23, 2016 03:45 AM)
Another thing we didn't see is when Alonzo puts the money into the blender he gives Smiley. According to the script that's the money Jake refused. I assume it happened while Jake was being interviewed by Stan. When they left Roger's the sun was still shining, but when they arrived to Smiley's it was already dark. The 2 locations are not that far from each other, so a chunk of time is missing.
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tueher86 — 10 years ago(February 26, 2016 09:58 PM)
Its very simple.
Alonzo had a plan laid out from the beginning of how he was going to use Hoyt.
His Plan A was always to get the money from Roger to save his own hide.
Corrupting or killing Jake was just Plan B and Plan C.
He spent the day using Jake as a pawn in his own greater scheme but at the same time he is also judging Hoyt's character and his value.
The pivotal part of the plot is the raid on Roger's house. This was the moment Alonzo used to determine if Hoyt could be trusted as one of his crew or dead weight. If Hoyt had taken the money and shot Roger then Alonzo would have no reason to kill him. In fact, at this point he was already impressed by Hoyt and if he had turned corrupt, Hoyt might have became Alonzo's favorite.
Once Jake proved that he was incorruptible, Alonzo made up his mind that he had to kill him to cover his tracks. The entire speech in the car was for Alonzo's own deluded visions and an attempt to keep Hoyt off guard until Alonzo can get him to Smileys.
By the end of the movie, you realize that Alonzo was merely a fool running around thinking he can rip people off forever just because he had a badge. -
noone1647 — 9 years ago(August 26, 2016 12:18 PM)
As far as Hoyt taking the money or not being a factor, I had always assumed that if Hoyt
did
take the money, put it in his pocket, then the Latino gang who killed him was just supposed to take it out of his pocket after as payment for the hit. Since he didn't take the money, Alonzo had to stuff it in the blender and give it to them that way. I had a feeling it was the same cash (Hoyt's blood money) it would either be on him for the gangbangers or given another way, but that is what Alonzo had that money earmarked for.
In other words, whether he took the money or not he was dead and that money was the payoff for that hit. -
hawkinssouth — 9 years ago(August 28, 2016 05:54 AM)
I think Alonzo was planning to have Jake killed, exactly the way he set it up. No matter what Jake did. Even if Jake had taken his share of Roger's money, Jake would have died Alonzo needed that money to pay off the Russians. Why did he keep talking to Jake? Not because he was trying to test him or turn him; only because Alonzo clearly loved to hear himself talk. He probably enjoyed airing all his theories to someone he knew would never repeat them.
Post-Roger-shooting, the story would remain that the rookie lost his head and shot. Because Alonzo knows Jake won't be around to contradict.
As another poster mentioned, it would be fishy for the rookie to be killed right after this big bust but how long would it take for that body to show up? And Alonzo can say anything he wants about that day with Jake, any story of how Jake acted. Maybe Jake was intensely remorseful about having lost his head, and he went off half-cocked into dangerous territory to prove himself. Or maybe Jake said/did things to the wrong people that day, and put a target on his back. Alonzo is King Kong he doesn't doubt his ability to bring this off.
So I think whether Alonzo liked Jake (and maybe he did) was moot; Alonzo had a plan and he stuck to his plan. It was Jake's luck that he rescued the niece of that Mexican gang. Dumb luck that brought down King Kong. Just my opinion. -
The Kraken — 3 years ago(September 04, 2022 10:05 AM)
Omg this is the best discussion!
The movie has excellent writing!!
I've often wondered that exact same thing. I think Alonzo decided to kill Jake after Jake still wasn't on his side about what happened with Roger. Alonzo saw that Jake couldn't be corrupted so Alonzo figured that Jake would snitch on the entire crew. He even asked Jake directly if Jake would take some of the money in order to make the rest of the crew less apprehensive about allowing Jake to live. But also, Alonzo needed Jake to get his hands dirty. Jake wasn't stupid though and Alonzo saw that. Even with all the talk about corruption in the police force and judicial system, and Alonzo trying desperately to entice Jake into the dark side of the profession through the use of emotional manipulations,, reason, logic and conversion, Jake wouldn't agree to steal the money and lie.
Jake still wouldn't help Alonzo even after finding out from the Mexicans that Alonzo got himself in trouble with the Russians. Cops are supposed to stick together. Jake was a rogue cop in my opinion. The dude was totally unreasonable. Jake shouldn't have felt sorry for Roger. Roger was a ****ing drug trafficker scum bag!
Jake wasn't cut out for the job as DEA detective.
Jake was a liability at that point. Jake could have them all lose their jobs and Alonzo wouldn't make his meeting with the Russians.
So, when Alonzo saw that Jake couldn't be persuaded, he makes his decision to have Jake murdered by the Mexicans.
Jake probably was Internal affairs the whole time if you ask me.