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  3. He should have stayed away from westerns!

He should have stayed away from westerns!

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    #18

    hobnob53 — 12 years ago(January 27, 2014 09:03 AM)

    True, what I wrote could basically apply to
    Gump
    . But though it received widespread acclaim (I like it but seeing it two or three times was enough), it has never been considered in quite the same elevated league as
    DSOHILTSWALTB
    , which is generally considered much more of a landmark or "important" film. (By the way,
    FG
    isn't "unimportant".)
    I've seen both versions of
    Madame X
    . You're right, the 1937 version is better, though to me that's somewhat relative. The 1966 version is indeed sappy and sudsy but really not much more so than the '37. (The '66 is actually only 100 minutes, which really isn't "long" except as a measure of how much one dislikes it, thought I suppose it's long compared to the very short '37 film, a bare 71 minutes.) To me neither film is very good and that aside, the story is absolutely ridiculous. But Gladys George was an excellent actress who fortunately did many better films, and she is much better suited to this type of role than glamorous Lana was.

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      MsELLERYqueen2 — 12 years ago(January 27, 2014 04:33 PM)

      I like Gump as well, but I wouldn't say it's my favorite Tom Hanks movie. I watch it every couple of years. My point was that sometimes it's not the "important" movies which wind up with excellent reviews, plus big box office numbers, plus Oscars. In fact, in some cases (like Gump), the movie was released after 1980.
      I know that the story of Madame X is far-fetched, but that's fine.
      I like far-fetched stories. The more far-fetched, the better.
      Perhaps I should tell you about some of the far-fetched mysteries which I've seen and read.
      Although I think it was Gladys George who really made that movie what it was.
      ~~
      JimHutton (1934-79) & ElleryQueen

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        hobnob53 — 12 years ago(January 30, 2014 11:22 AM)

        I knew there was an even earlier version than the 1937 film, and then by chance saw that it's slated to be shown in February on TCM. That one's from 1929 and stars Ruth Chatterton (best known from the 1936 film
        Dodsworth
        ). In looking the title up I also found it had been filmed
        three times before
        even
        that
        version in 1906, 1916 and 1920. Can't imagine what the '06 version is like the entire story in about six minutes. But as I say, the story is just too ludicrous for my taste. Of course, the basic material doesn't interest me to begin with. But obviously, with at least five film versions,
        somebody
        likes it! I never realized how old the story was until I read about the 1906 movie.
        It calls to mind the novel and film
        Magnificent Obsession
        . Lb68ike
        Madame X
        , the story is just preposterous. Yet that one made major stars of the actors who played the leading male role in each film version: Robert Taylor in 1935 and Rock Hudson in 1954.
        I don't mind far-fetched per se probably most of the films I like could be called far-fetched in some manner maybe most
        movies
        could but some tales strain credulity so much they deteriorate into just plain silliness.

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          ccurts2319 — 12 years ago(January 24, 2014 10:43 PM)

          Jim had developed a "bad" reputation (claimed by the movie studios) that he was difficult to work with, starting in the mid-60s through end of the 60s. If you notice, he worked with several different studios, including being contracted out and having to find work with independent studios instead of the big ones. He commented that Jim Wayne gave him a change, first by Green Beret, and liked him sowell, that Wayne chose him again in Hellfighters.
          One thing is that both he and Paula Prentiss jointly refused to do more movies together because they essentially had done all the "reactions" they could wth each other. I think this shows a little bit in their last joint movie, with supporting actor and friend Jim Weston, and starring Steve McQueen. It's McQueen's 1st effort in comedy, which audiences seems to like, yet McQueen felt so embarrassed by his own performance and the movie that he refused to talk about almost all of the rest of his life.
          Many Hutton fans consider this one of the worst filmsI think it was a good film, but had slow moments, some of which I think is from the script. It seemed inconsistent to me.

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            MsELLERYqueen2 — 12 years ago(January 25, 2014 12:08 AM)

            The movie you are talking about is
            The Honeymoon Machine
            , which is a good film but paced a bit poorly at times (IMHO). It's not the last one he and Paula did together. Their last one together was
            The Horizontal Lieutenant
            , which I love. She also had a brief cameo appearance in the movie
            Looking for Love
            , in which he was the leading actor and Connie Francis was the leading actress.
            I think it's too bad that Jim and Paula stopped doing movies together. They made such a cute couple!
            I haven't seen
            The Green Berets
            yet, but I did see
            Hellfighters
            and liked it. Jim was really
            hotter than fire
            in that film.
            ~~
            JimHutton (1934-79) & ElleryQueen

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              #23

              schndr_lr — 10 years ago(January 17, 2016 05:21 PM)

              I wish Jim and Tim Hutton could have done a movie of the week remake of Ellery Queen together, perhaps in the 1980's during the Murder She Wrote era. Tim could have played Ellery and Jim could have played his father Inspector Richard Queen. That would have been so much fun to see.

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                #24

                MsELLERYqueen2 — 10 years ago(January 17, 2016 10:02 PM)

                I also wish that Jim had lived long enough so that he and his son could have done an Ellery Queen series!
                Jim might have been a bit too young to play Richard in the eighties, but the nineties would have been the right time for such a series. A lost opportunity, for sure.
                I also think that David Wayne (Richard Queen in the TV series) would have been perfect as Ellery in the 1950s. There were a couple of Ellery Queen TV series filmed back then, but he wasn't a part of either of those shows.

                Jim Hutton (1934-79) & Ellery Queen
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                  #25

                  Eric-62-2 — 12 years ago(January 24, 2014 08:29 PM)

                  I too think Hutton was fine in "Major Dundee" for what the part required. Thought he was okay in "Hallelujah Trail" though as an epic comedy the film falls flat. Just one thing about "Dundee", Hob, I think the film's incomprehensibility is more the fault of Sam Peckinpah, not the studio. Peckinpah was the one responsible for the final draft of the script and he basically wrote a film that had no ending and didn't care about fixing it. The restoration took care of fixing two plot points that were cut from the preview version but all the evidence indicates that Peckinpah never shot any sequences that would have fixed the film's other narrative flaws.
                  Hutton will always be Ellery Queen to me though, because that was the role that he was literally born to play and I wish it had lasted beyond its first season (even though we would have seen it shortened by his untimely death).

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                    #26

                    hobnob53 — 12 years ago(January 24, 2014 10:30 PM)

                    No question Peckinpah was the main problem with
                    Dundee
                    , for reasons that went beyond the script. Even so, the studio didn't help it much either. It's too bad it couldn't have been done right the first time. Peckinpah had shown he could do excellent work with
                    Ride the High Country
                    three years before, and would do some good work in the future. But his behavior and out-of-control reliance on drugs and alcohol certainly took their toll. But your views on Hutton's performance in
                    Major Dundee
                    are the same as mine.
                    I never watched
                    Ellery Queen
                    much when it was on. I saw a few episodes but it was never one of my staples. It's interesting to me that so many people identify JH mainly with that series instead of any of his movie work, though it's true that most of his film roles were either secondary or in lesser or forgettable movies, which was too bad. He'd be 80 this year, had he lived. His personality, or at least his screen persona, was certainly miles away from the sullen, humorless disposition of his son.

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                      #27

                      MsELLERYqueen2 — 12 years ago(January 24, 2014 11:46 PM)

                      I'll say this much: I didn't like the beard that he had to wear for his part in
                      Major Dundee
                      .
                      You mentioned the EQ series in your post. Why not give the entire series a chance, if you have a spare moment?
                      So you're not a fan of Tim Hutton? I like him, but I really prefer his dad.
                      ~~
                      JimHutton (1934-79) & ElleryQueen

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                        #28

                        hobnob53 — 12 years ago(January 25, 2014 12:39 PM)

                        Actually, I kind of liked the beard he had in
                        Dundee
                        . I thought it gave him more character for the role. And I'm not a "beard" person! But sometimes a person does look better with one, though it would have been inappropriate for JH in his subsequent parts.
                        Since my post mentioning the
                        Ellery Queen
                        series, I've thought about how many episodes I may have seen, both in its initial run in the mid-70s and in repeats years later on the A&E Network, which Eric jogged my memory about. I can't say for certain, of course, but I probably saw 60-70% of them. I don't have to give the show "a chance" because I've sen most of the episodes, besides which I didn't say anything bad about it. It was well-done, well-acted and enjoyable. It's simply that I was never really caught up in it, or in the general character of Ellery Queen. (Detective stories aren't among my favorite genres. Personal taste and all that.)
                        But that doesn't mean I simply dismiss out of hand a show I may not have been a fan of, or that's in a genre that's not one of my favorites. I can appreciate the quality of something, or someone, even if I don't much care for the show or even the person. There may be a lesson there. To wit:
                        No, I'm not a Tim Hutton fan. I don't dislike him, he seems like a nice guy, and he's a good actor (he deserved his Oscar), but he never much appealed to me. It strikes me as odd or at least curious that his screen persona is so at odds with his father's: light, sunny and a bit flippant, vs. sullen, serious and grim. (I can't speak to their private ones.) Their film and TV roles followed those personas. Just as Jim could have used a serious dramatic part, so could his son have used a really good comedy role.

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                          #29

                          MsELLERYqueen2 — 12 years ago(January 25, 2014 02:11 PM)

                          The beard didn't look good on Jim.
                          And okay, I didn't realize that you weren't that much into detective stories until I read that other post and this one. Sorryit's just that I did bump into you on the board for
                          The Asphalt Jungle
                          , so I thought that maybe you were into crime/noir, etc. Unfortunately, I can't think of any EQ episode which has more of a war, action, and/or western style to it.
                          If you want to see Tim Hutton doing comedy, you would have to see a detective series:
                          Nero Wolfe
                          (filmed about 14 years ago or so). He played Archie Goodwin in that series, and he was quite funny, especially during the second season. I heard that he did some comedies in the eighties, but I haven't seen any of those movies.
                          ~~
                          JimHutton (1934-79) & ElleryQueen

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                            #30

                            hobnob53 — 12 years ago(January 25, 2014 05:26 PM)

                            Okay, a couple of things:
                            I think he did look good with the beard. It made him look more rugged and mature for the role, and it's accurate for the era in which the film took place. He wouldn't have looked good with a beard in, say,
                            Walk Don't Run
                            . Matter of opinion.
                            I like film noir and do like crime dramas and related kinds of films (one reason you met me on the
                            Asphalt Jungle
                            site). But I've never been into
                            detective stories
                            as such, or really into films or TV shows based on such stories. I may like a film whose main character is a detective from a book or series of books (for example, Sam Spade in
                            The Maltese Falcon
                            ), but that's because the particular film appeals to me, not because it's a detective story per se.
                            I'm a bit annoyed by your remark, "Unfortunately, I can't think of any EQ episode which has more of a war, action, and/or western style to it." I didn't say anything that would warrant that sarcastic remark. Your line used a few examples of k1908inds of films I said I liked, took it out of context and turned it into a snide and inaccurate version of what I actually did say. For the record, if
                            EQ
                            had incorporated any of the aspects you dragged in I would have thought it was lousy.
                            Yes, I know the
                            Nero Wolfe
                            series. I only saw one or two episodes of it, for the same reason: detective shows just don't interest me; so I can't comment on it, other than I know it got good reviews. I looked up Tim's credits to refresh my memory. He did do a few comedies, more in the 90s than 80s, but for the most part he's been in dramas. As I recall from a couple of the comedies of his I did see he was kind of dour in them toothough that can actually work in a comedy. Besides, none of them was especially good. That's why I said he could have used a
                            good
                            comedy. On the other hand, like his father I guess he's cast in the type of roles for which he's seen as best suited.

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                              wrote last edited by
                              #31

                              MsELLERYqueen2 — 12 years ago(January 25, 2014 11:23 PM)

                              I'm a bit annoyed by your remark, "Unfortunately, I can't think of any EQ episode which has more of a war, action, and/or western style to it." I didn't say anything that would warrant that sarcastic remark. Your line used a few examples of kinds of films I said I liked, took it out of context and turned it into a snide and inaccurate version of what I actually did say. For the record, if EQ had incorporated any of the aspects you dragged in I would have thought it was lousy.
                              Huh???? What on Earth was so sarcastic about what I wrote? I just meant that there are no EQ episodes which might have any of those themes. For example, I can think of one film noir that has a western theme:
                              Pursued
                              , starring Robert Mitchum. If someone asked me about any noirs with a western theme, I would tell them about that movie. Another poster on the classics and film noir boards has expressed an interest in reporters in movies from the 1930s and 40s, so I recommended to her the EQ episodes featuring reporter Frank Flannigan. Some whodunnits have a war theme to them, such as the British movie
                              Green for Dan16d0ger
                              . If someone asked me for a war-themed whodunnit, that's the one I would be promoting.
                              All I meant was that there are no episodes where, say, Ellery and his dad are in a more "western" setting. If memory serves me right, the EQ novel "The American Gun Mystery" had that setting, but that novel wasn't filmed for this series. The closest to the WWII theme would be the episode "Col. Niven's Memoirs". I should have mentioned that one earlier, but forgot about it. The series is set in 1947, so there are references to WWII in some of the episodes.
                              Honestly, I'm just amazed at how some comments get misinterpreted on the boards. No wonder I feel most comfortable posting one-line responses!
                              Those are least likely to be misinterpreted. Although I did have to put up with one misinterpretation of a two liner a few weeks ago. I don't know how this other poster managed to misunderstand what I was saying, but I guess that's how it is on the net sometimes.
                              Ah well
                              Oh, and I still say that
                              the beard didn't look good on Jim
                              .
                              ~~
                              JimHutton (1934-79) & ElleryQueen

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                                wrote last edited by
                                #32

                                hobnob53 — 12 years ago(January 27, 2014 09:10 AM)

                                Well, since "war, action and westerns" couldn't possibly, remotely, in any way, shape or form apply to
                                EQ
                                , how else could I take it than sarcastically?
                                But I accept your explanation that such was not your intention, and move on.
                                I guess I shall have to beard Jim Hutton in his den.

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                                  MsELLERYqueen2 — 12 years ago(January 27, 2014 04:36 PM)

                                  I should come up with a list of mysteries and noirs for you that have a war, action, and/or western theme. I mentioned a couple of them in my last post:
                                  Green for Danger (war)
                                  Pursued (western)
                                  I should reread EQ's "The American Gun Mystery". I'm almost completely positive that this novel has a western theme to it. To my knowledge, this story was never filmed.
                                  I'll be starting the Charlie Chan series tonight (third viewing of each of the movies). Seems like they tackled every theme in these films: Chan visits London, he goes to the opera, he goes to Egypt, etc. I'll make note of the films that fit your criteria.
                                  ~~
                                  JimHutton (1934-79) & ElleryQueen

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                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #34

                                    hobnob53 — 12 years ago(January 30, 2014 11:40 AM)

                                    I have both films and they are good, particularly
                                    Green for Danger
                                    . I don't consider
                                    Pursued
                                    a mystery as the term's commonly understood, but I understand your point.
                                    I think in the realm of mysteries I like police-oriented films more than private detective films. Perhaps it's my bias toward officialdom. But it accounts for my liking of such films as
                                    The Asphalt Jungle
                                    (which isn't a mystery anyway) and other films (like
                                    Green for Danger
                                    ) with a police inspector instead of a P.I. at its core. I don't have any criteria as you put it (i.e., the western, war, etc., background) for enjoying a mystery; the film itself is what matters. But as I said my bias seems to be more toward cops and less toward sleuths.
                                    I've seen virtually all the Charlie Chan movies so no need for recommendations there. They're fun for the most part. The first batch with Warner Oland were the best, but the next bunch with Sidney Toler were good too. But the series declined after that. I also have the Mr. Moto series with Peter Lorre, which were also fun. But in each case I think it was the characterizations more than the mysteries themselves that made the pictures so amusing. I also own the 2000complete 14-film Sherlock Holmes series. Here too the mysteries are to me somewhat secondary compared to the overall enjoyment of the films, particularly the "modern" ones with Holmes a contemporary (1940s) detective, and of course the casting of the incomparable Basil Rathbone as Holmes, with Nigel Bruce the perfect Watson.
                                    In all these cases, it's the overall nature of the films, rather than the mystery angle as such, that I like.

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                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #35

                                      MsELLERYqueen2 — 12 years ago(January 30, 2014 03:03 PM)

                                      Pursued
                                      is western noir, not a western-mystery.
                                      And since you have seen so many of these mysteries (like Charlie Chan, etc.), my point here a few days ago should have been clear and should
                                      not
                                      have been interpreted as sarcasm. All I meant was that there weren't any EQ episodes with some of the themes covered in some of those other series.
                                      ~~
                                      JimHutton (1934-79) & ElleryQueen

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                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #36

                                        hobnob53 — 12 years ago(January 30, 2014 06:06 PM)

                                        Well, in its context that wasn't clear and it makes no sense other than as a reference to the film preferences I mentionedwhich were not preferences concerning the type of
                                        mystery
                                        I like, but the kind of
                                        genres
                                        I like. The background
                                        setting
                                        to a mystery is not relevant to me, and since I never said anything of the kind this should be clear. Now, I've accepted your statement that you meant nothing sarcastic. So can we let this go?

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                                          #37

                                          MsELLERYqueen2 — 12 years ago(January 30, 2014 06:10 PM)

                                          OK, hobnob. I was just trying to be helpful earlier.
                                          You're a true Gentleman of the Boards.
                                          Hey, which team are you rooting for in the Superbowl? One Nice Guy on IMDb wants Seattle to win, and another Nice Guy on IMDb is rooting for Denver. I need a tiebreaker.
                                          Which team?
                                          ~~
                                          JimHutton (1934-79) & ElleryQueen

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