Whedon vs. Abrams
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dm442711 — 12 years ago(June 23, 2013 11:32 AM)
Thank you for your reply. While I have waited for one I recently finished dollhouse for the first time and agree that season two was great but the first season was just ok. I am now going back and watching Angel, after that I'm going to check out firefly fo5b4r the second time because during my first viewing I didn't understand what the hype was about (and I know on this page I will get crap for, but as a fan of his I'm going to give it another shot). Overall I have decided that what I really want to see, even though I know it is very very unlikely to happen) I want JJ to come up with a tv show idea and let whedon write it. I personally feel that if those two wrked together it would make for great tv.
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Franco_Zed — 12 years ago(August 27, 2013 01:42 PM)
" I'm going to check out firefly for the second time because during my first viewing I didn't understand what the hype was about "
I am a stellar example of why a second watch is a good idea. Here's why.
My secret shame as a Whedon fan is that I did not fall in love with Firefly right away. In fact, I barely even noticed when it left the air. (After being a diehard Buffy fan for years.)
Fast forward a couple of years. I rewatched Firefly a couple of months before Serenity, and something just clicked. Now I love it.
I still believe that the show could have been better and more successful if they'd toned down a couple of elements of the show. If it had been up to me, I would have nixed the Chinese, toned down the Western stereotypes, and changed the theme song. I actually loved all 3 of these things, but I think they were significant barriers for many viewers.
All insults will be interpreted as an admission that you cannot contribute to the discussion.
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BigBadDolemite — 10 years ago(June 23, 2015 09:03 AM)
I still believe that the show could have been better and more successful if they'd toned down a couple of elements of the show. If it had been up to me, I would have nixed the Chinese, toned down the Western stereotypes, and changed the theme song. I actually loved all 3 of these things, but I think they were significant barriers for many viewers.
kinda disagree with that because those are some of the parts of the show that I like, and I don't really like Firefly that much. I don't think taking or leaving those aspects out or in would have that much of impact on the quality of the show. I'm not a big fan of Firefly but I loved Serenity and think its close to being a masterpiece.
My biggest problem with that show was that it was mostly a procedural and the continuing story arc of River was barely touched on during the show. For me it was the most interesting part of the show that went no where until the film Serenity. I know lots of people like TV laid out in a procedural fashion but I hate it and really don't see the point of tuning in to watch the samething every week.
Oh and based on Serenity alone I'm picking Joss. JJ has yet to make a great movie. -
Franco_Zed — 10 years ago(June 23, 2015 12:58 PM)
"I don't think taking or leaving those aspects out or in would have that much of impact on the quality of the show."
It's interesting to get someone else's mixed feelings about Firefly. I totally agree with your statement above, but my problem with those 3 aspects was not a quality issue at all. I see this as an issue of audience perception or expectations. Upon my first watch, I found the Western aspects, including the theme song, to be a little alienating. I think this may have been the case for a significant portion of casual viewers and Buffy fans. I may be wrong about that. (As for the Chinese, I liked that right away, but I'm guessing that it would have come across as VERY strange to casual viewers.)
"Oh and based on Serenity alone I'm picking Joss. JJ has yet to make a great movie."
Interesting. Now that you mention it, my feeling is that JJ repeatedly falls short (or
just
short) of greatness. I loved Super 8, but I think I've liked most of Joss' movies better.
"That felon is worth a million and
That Fillion is worth a melon." -
BigBadDolemite — 10 years ago(June 23, 2015 06:33 PM)
Interesting. Now that you mention it, my feeling is that JJ repeatedly falls short (or just short) of greatness. I loved Super 8, but I think I've liked most of Joss' movies better.
definitively agree with this. All his movies are decent to good that I've seen. He just hasn't made a great one yet. Hopefully Star Wars will be his first. -
Franco_Zed — 10 years ago(June 23, 2015 06:39 PM)
"Hopefully Star Wars will be his first."
I was thinking that too. I meant to mention it in my previous post, but forgot.
I hope I'm not wrong about this, but I have a very strong feeling that SW7 will be much better than the prequels.
"I have a very good feeling about this."
"That felon is worth a million and
That Fillion is worth a melon." -
poem — 12 years ago(June 28, 2013 03:39 PM)
Cant say much about Abrams.
I only watched his Star Trek movie, and I absolutely hate it with a passion. Awful in every respect except for the most of1c84 the actors, which are actually excellent, except the one for Kirk, the maybe worst overacted character I've ever seen anywhere. And I guess I might actually have liked the flashy effects if the story and dialogues would have been worth anything.
About the dialogue, just check out the "memorable quotes" page here at IMDB for that movie. The only actually somewhat original, actually memorable quotes there are these original Star Trek quotes like "I'm a doctor, not a physicist!" from Bones or Spocks typical "Fascinating" etc. Otherwise a lot of stupid dialogue that is anything but memorable. No good jokes or oneliners anywhere.
Havent watched anything else from Abrams, so
A gentleman will not insult me, and no man not a gentleman can insult me. -
pgfan92 — 11 years ago(December 01, 2014 09:03 AM)
The only actually somewhat original, actually memorable quotes there are these original Star Trek quotes like "I'm a doctor, not a physicist!" from Bones or Spocks typical "Fascinating" etc.
He's certainly a better writer than you are. -
pgfan92 — 10 years ago(May 07, 2015 12:40 PM)
You are somewhat correct. There is no connection between talent and criticism skills, true. It is in communicating criticism to others where writing becomes important. However, reading your original post now, I don't understand my original intent in criticizing your writing ability, your writing is clear and effective. I must have a few beers in me. I apologize for the uncalled for insult.
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swecritic — 12 years ago(August 05, 2013 01:50 PM)
Well, lets compare things they made pretty the same time in life:
Wrote some bad films < Titan AE, Toy Story and such
Armageddon = Alien 4
Felicity < Buffy
Alias < Firefly
Mission Impossible III > Angel (Making a huge blockbuster, even though it is worse than Angel in entertainment quality, I think it is a statement of status)
Lost > Serenity Movie
Fringe > Dollhouse
Cloverfield + first Star Trek > Cabin In The Woods (only wrote script)
Super 8 >5b4 He did not really do anything, was preperaing for Avengers flick
Alcatraz-series < Avengers-movie
Star Trek II > Much Ado About Nothing
Person of interest, Revolution ? Avengers-Tv series If i may guess probably whedon but lets leave it unsaid
Star Wars 7 > Avengers II (yeah, Avengers might be great comic-adaption, but getting the honor to direct Star Wars wins.
Overall its pretty tight, but in total: 3p advantage to Abrams (7-4).
However if you would have asked the same thing before Lost, Whedon would have kicked Abrams as. Avengers and his latest film is on the right track. But that dry period from ~2005-2011, there is really no competition. Abrams been more productive and creative during those years.
You could flip-flop the comparisons, but I find the conclusion the same:
Whedon better before 2005
Abrams better until 2011
Pretty much equal 2012-2013
And I guess the fair decider would be SW7 vs Avenger 2.
Currently, by a small margin, I find Abrams better. Mostly due to the dry-period of Mr Whedon during the 2005-2011 period.
I know this is a Whedon board. And there is a lot of his fans here. I like both, and this is my way to look on it!