I must be the only one who likes this more than TDKR
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
johndude552 — 13 years ago(July 28, 2012 08:35 PM)
TDKR spent much of its time away from Batman, and did not have an organic love story. It is far-fetched for a "realistic" movie, and limiting for a comic book one. Phantasm manages to show the vulnerability of Batman, while still demonstrating his resourcefulness and detective ability. And it manages to have a more personal quality than the standard "time bomb" plot, using a nuclear reactor that was partially developed by Wayne enterprises. I think MOTP does better at portraying Batman as a hybrid genre, and allows Bruce to be more independent and confrontational.
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Ryan_Pliskin — 13 years ago(July 29, 2012 09:27 AM)
I haven't seen TDKR, and Mask of the Phantasm is my favorite Batman movie ever. For the longest time I wanted a Batman movie to best this one, but it never happened. Yes, Batman Begins & The Dark Knight has plenty to offer, but somehow this movie IS Batman for me. The visual style, acting, score and themes are unique and the plot is actually quite moving and gives you a little more insight on Batman's ongoing motivation on the war of crime.
I've seen way too many modern "Bat-fans" who praise the Nolan movies who couldn't care less about Mask of the Phantasm, and honestly it's a shame. People disregard this movie most likely to the 40's film noir feel and because it's animation. This movie deserves a all the love and hype that modern Batman movies generates.
My friends are texting and calling me telling TDKR is the best Batman and superhero movie ever, and y'know what? Deep down I hope that IS true. I truly want a Batman movie that is just as compelling and thought provoking as Mask of the Phantasm, so if it is, do post it here but keep the spoilers away!
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GreatWhiteApeofBarsoom — 9 years ago(December 04, 2016 03:06 PM)
The Dark Knight Rises is a sloppily directed movie that's outlandish even by comic book standards. It's not particularly well acted and is less compelling than puerile. Meanwhile, Batman: Mask of the Phantasm has a solid storyline with great voice acting and a compelling, layered plot.
I greatly prefer it to any of the Nolan movies though I do like Batman Begins.
Requiescat in pace, Krystle Papile. I'll always miss you. Justice was finally served. -
spencermalley935 — 9 years ago(December 04, 2016 04:23 PM)
The Dark Knight is just as good if not better than Mask of the Phantasm and TDKR is no where close to actually being a bad movie no matter how many immature peons try and tar/feather it for stupid reasons.
In terms of plot, You actually find a ruthless terrorist tearing a city apart while forcing the main character to watch helplessly "puerile"? Hardly
http://www.tor.com/2013/05/28/batman-animated-series-rewatch-mask-of-the-phantasm/
Tell me what you think -
GreatWhiteApeofBarsoom — 9 years ago(December 04, 2016 06:17 PM)
I hate to use this terminology, but your inflammatory declaration of your own views as fact rather than thought forces my hand:
Those are your opinions. I don't share them regardless of how confidently you want to declare your own assessment of the movies as absolute fact.
The Dark Knight Rises is silly by even comic book standards.
Somehow Bane and the League of Shadows render a billionaire penniless by raiding a stock exchange and planting his fingerprints on trades whose timestamps would have corresponded with the raid and therefore would never have been recognized as valid.
Anyone who knows anything about a stock exchange knows that's not even remotely possible.
Then Bruce Wayne heals his broken spine perfectly with no medical treatment besides having a compound fractured lumbar vertbra shoved back into his spinal column without even any antibiotics to prevent or alleviate infection.
Meanwhile, the United States government lets Gotham languish under Bane's rule for months with apparently no attempt to retake the city besides a half-assed, undermanned one.
On top of this, Commissioner Gordon is a complete moron who can't figure out Bruce Wayne is Batman even though "Robin" can because of nothing but the look in Bruce's eyes.
In the climax, Batman survives a nuclear explosion whose fallout has exactly no adverse effects on the city it happened next to.
That's poorly thought out plotting with no thought about how to make the details mesh to ensure the plot makes a modicum of sense.
You're right. I shouldn't have called it puerile. I was too kind to it by using that terminology. It's ridiculous and insulting to the intelligence. Thanks for causing me to analyze the film better.
Requiescat in pace, Krystle Papile. I'll always miss you. Justice was finally served. -
spencermalley935 — 9 years ago(December 04, 2016 06:33 PM)
Where to start
Somehow Bane and the League of Shadows render a billionaire penniless by raiding a stock exchange and planting his fingerprints on trades whose timestamps would have corresponded with the raid and therefore would never have been recognized as valid.
Anyone who knows anything about a stock exchange knows that's not even remotely possible.
First off, Bane and his men didn't actually make any trades, They used a malware program to fool the system into thinking certain trades had been made months in advance of the stock market raid.
Then Bruce Wayne heals his broken spine
Bruce's back wasn't actually broken, A vertebrae was knocked out of alignment and the doctor merely inserted it back into place and left him there until he healed.
the United States government lets Gotham languish under Band's rule for months with apparently no attempt to retake the city besides a half-assed, undermanned one.
Can't really do anything with a bomb set to destroy the city.
Commissioner Gordon is a complete moron
Gordon is multiple times in the movie said to not care who Batman actually is.
Batman survives a nuclear explosion whose fallout has exactly no adverse effects on the city it happened next to.
It's a neutron bomb, It would have a minimal radioactive fallout.
That's poorly thought out plotting with no thought about how to make the details mesh to ensure.
While that is an excellent description of the DCEU movies, It doesn't really have anything to do with TDKR.
t's ridiculous and insulting to the intelligence.
Not really, no more so than a movie where a deformed sewer-dwelling penguin man is almost elected mayor of Gotham city (Batman Returns).
Before you say how awful, silly or insulting to your intelligence a movie is, Try to actually watch it first. -
GreatWhiteApeofBarsoom — 9 years ago(December 05, 2016 03:24 PM)
I'd ask you to get your head out of Nolan's ass, but I know that's never going to happen.
First off, I advise actually watching the movie before jumping to your lamebrained defense of it.
The League of Shadows explicitly stole Bruce Wayne's fingerprints so as to make it look as if he were present at the terminal to make the garbage trades that wiped out his fortune.
Even if they did put malware into system, before the stock exchange reopened, the owners would have sent techs to check to see what the League of Shadows was doing at the terminal and correct any hacking. Nolan didn't research how stock exchanges work, but because he said it could happen, you automatically accepted it like a good little mindnumbed robot.
The doctor who put the vertebra back into Wayne's back explicitly said it was sticking out. That's the definition of a compound fracture: a bone protruding from the skin.
I now see you know as little about medicine as about stock exchanges. Replacing a protruding vertebra requires surgery including a thorough check for bone spurs to prevent any spurs from pressing against the spinal cord and causing permanent paralysis. It also requires immobility while the traumatized discs surrounding the vertebra heal. (Discs are cartilagenonvascular tissueand heal slowly because they absorb the nutrients needed for remodeling rather than having arteries nourish them.) Hanging on a noose in a germ-infested hole in the ground isn't going to heal the back despite what Christopher Nolan told you.
Right. You know the Governor and the President are going to stand by and let Bane say Gotham will be destroyed without devising a plan to take him out, bomb or no bomb. Where have you been living since 9/11? Clearly not on Earth.
Gordon is not interested in who Batman is? That explains perfectly why he ASKS who Batman is. Hell, Gordon started as a detective but was too stupid to see the obvious. No wonder the Joker had no problem infiltrating the GPD with a bunch of nimrods serving on the force.
Show me the technical specs that say a neutron bomb has no nuclear fallout and won't vaporize the person it explodes under.
What the DCEU has to do with a discussion of the Dark Knight Rises I have no clue since I never brought it up, nor did anyone else till now in a halfassed attempt to make some kind of specious point.
As with the DCEU, I see no point in discussing Batman Returns since we're on a thread comparing The Dark Knight Rises and Batman: Mask of the Phantasm.
If you genuinely want to compare Nolan and Burton though, Burton made no attempt to claim his Batman operated in a realistic world but instead made his world overtly surreal. Nolan pretentiously claimed his Batman operated in a realistic worlda claim undermined by the multifarious unrealistic events of the movies. One or the other.
Make them unrealistic or realistic. Don't claim to be making realistic movies though while employing flimsy plot contrivances and occurrences any but the most mindless fanboys can easily see through.
Requiescat in pace, Krystle Papile. I'll always miss you. Justice was finally served. -
tyler1451 — 13 years ago(July 30, 2012 10:07 AM)
TDKR is a terrible film with horrible gaps in logic from almost every major and ancillary character. Phantasm is by far the best and most incredible Batman film ever made.
"They treat you like dirt!" - Wikus Van De Merwe
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THE_Uberto_Bartono — 13 years ago(August 17, 2012 02:58 AM)
I didn't think I'd ever be happy. Oh the goosebumps. Yeah this movie is ridiculously good, but then again, this is the animated series' movie, and the animated series was the best cartoon ever that wasn't a comedy. Seriously, name me one cartoon, that isn't a comical one, but give me one cartoon that you think is better than this. I'll come back in five years, and no one will list a cartoon exactly. Cartoons are supposed to be funny, and batman was funny every now and then but it was a mature show.
TUB 4:20 -
Bababababooie — 12 years ago(May 30, 2013 02:50 AM)
Don't knock Bebop or Champloo man. I think it was mentioned that one of the studios involved in the making of the series was based out of Japan. Not sure which actually came first, but series like this helped to illustrate how great a medium animation can be for storytelling. Get a hold of a copy of "Sideshow", an episode featuring Killer Croc. Saw it the other day and man, some of the way the scene's were "filmed" blew me away.
Anime (not all of it mind you, ugh, naruto and bleach are dreadful examples but they do somethings right), has been doing cool stuff like this since the eighties or early nineties. And if you haven't seen Cowboy Bebop or Samurai Champloo, check them out. For Dubs, they're quite well done. -
durwardc01 — 12 years ago(March 21, 2014 04:21 AM)
The 92-97 Xmen was quite good.
Similarly, the 94-98 animated Spider Man did a better job capturing Spidey than any of the movies did (thought the most recent one got pretty close).
The Spawn cartoon was also excellent. -
Kombat_Karl — 13 years ago(August 18, 2012 08:26 AM)
Bruce Timm and Paul Dini got Batman (and more specifically, Bruce Wayne) more right than Burton and Nolan combined, if you ask me. I love Phantasm to pieces, but the live action movies just aren't my bag.
Come on, that scene with Bruce kneeling over his parents' grave in the pouring rain? It really made you feel for the man. His dilemma of wanting to risk his life fighting crime as Batman as well as wanting a happy married life with Andrea was such a gripping story, and in a way, quite relatable. We've all been at a cross roads at some point in our lives, not knowing which path to take. I think Batman is best conveyed through animation, because none of the live action films had the emotional depth that Phantasm or even the show had.
Excuse me, I have to go.
Somewhere, there is a crime happening. -
starone55106 — 13 years ago(September 09, 2012 05:29 AM)
"TDKR is all hype"
A big part of the Nolan trilogy in general is hype. This is better than the entire trilogy combined. And I agree with a previous poster: This film gave a more realistic scenario (as well as Batman Beyond) for Bruce to quit his crusade than TDKR did.