Why did it so bad at the Box Office?!
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KeithFerguson — 21 years ago(December 24, 2004 11:13 AM)
It's a very eye-opening experience, posting things here on IMDb and reading others' posts. I've always considered myself to be a rather objective person. Able to see both sides of the argument, understand where people were coming from. But now I'm accepting the fact that this is not true. I have absolutely no idea what people are talking about sometimes as I read their comments about movies. My best guess would be to say they are working with completely different criteria.
For instance, I have no point of reference for someone who would say the dialogue is terrific in 'Long Kiss Goodnight.' I'm sure even Shane Black would be taken aback at that comment. It's not even attempting to be good. It's supposed to be over the top cheeseball stuff. It's on the level of comic book dialogue. The entirety of the 'character development' dialogue is made up of one cliche answered by another or lame running jokes. Watch a movie that doesn't have any explosions in it and you'll get a taste of what real dialogue is.
Chasing down a car on a pair of iceskates is involving? 'Bourne Identity' doesn't even come close, then? Not even a smidgeon?
So I've given up being objective. -
KeithFerguson — 21 years ago(December 25, 2004 03:03 PM)
You mean to tell me you watch movies like 'Lost in Translation' and you consider the dialogue in 'Long Kiss Goodnight' not only tolerable but terrific? See, that's what I'm talking about incomprehensible. I'm not arguing that Mr. Black can write lively dialogue, I'm just saying the dialogue - like everything else in the movie - sucks. It's a solid one-star movie. And name-dropping isn't going to convince me you know what you're talking about.
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Alias_MFB — 21 years ago(December 30, 2004 07:45 PM)
fergman3001
has obviously seen
The Long Kiss Goodnight
more than once. His posts are full of details about the film. Now why would anyone subject himself to such torture? Could it be that this "one-star" film is actually far better? Yep, that's it.
There's no reason to care for these characters. Who cares if anyone lives or dies at the end? Of course, we know the good guys will live. Oh, come on, you knew it.
This isn't a valid critique of the film. You could probably make the same complaint about any drama.
The Long Kiss Goodnight
has a mom and her 9-year-old daughter. We can't help rooting for both of them. And even if we know they will prevail we can still enjoy the movie because we go for the whole, unfolding story and not just the ending.
It's a very eye-opening experience, posting things here on IMDb and reading others' posts. I've always considered myself to be a rather objective person. Able to see both sides of the argument, understand where people were coming from. But now I'm accepting the fact that this is not true. I have absolutely no idea what people are talking about sometimes as I read their comments about movies. My best guess would be to say they are working with completely different criteria.
Translation: If you enjoyed
The Long Kiss Goodnight
you must be some sort of lunatic.
fergman3001
beholds favorable remarks about the film, and now as a result he finds himself in a state of
anomie
. His entire world-view is upended. Hilarious! I hope this continues.
You mean to tell me you watch movies like 'Lost in Translation' and you consider the dialogue in 'Long Kiss Goodnight' not only tolerable but terrific? See, that's what I'm talking about incomprehensible.
We can't praise anything about
The Long Kiss Goodnight
if we also happen to enjoy the latest critics' favorite? Ridiculous. -
KeithFerguson — 21 years ago(January 10, 2005 06:49 AM)
I can't help it! I love seeing myself quoted!
My goodness, I feel very honored to have my words dwelt upon with such depth. All right, coming back down from my little cloud of joy . . .
Actually, I have only seen this movie once. And that was more than enough. I happened to post right after I watched it so it was rather fresh in the mind. And I don't really think you guys are lunatics, though that was the first thought that popped in my mind when I read the posts lauding The Long Kiss Goodnight. Films like this are a dime a dozen and you can get everything you see in Long Kiss Goodnight in some other movie. So I have difficulty understanding why anyone would defend it or wonder why it did badly at the box office. It didn't do well because . . . well, read the above reasons. Most audiences do not like movies like this. That's why it did badly at the box office.
And I don't think there is a movie made where you can't say at least one good thing about it. For instance, I really like the shot where the guy is hanging from the lights or whatever and things are exploding as the camera tracks Geena stalking towards something. I really did.
The point isn't that the movie has you rooting for a nine year-old daughter and mother (though personally, I wasn't), it's that there is no tension. They never throw you something that says, 'Hey, watch out, we might just kill them.' Every indication from the time that they outrun a grenade explosion is that they are totally invincible. It's like James Bond, right? Only less plausible. Plus, I actually care if James Bond dies. I couldn't care less for these characters. Especially Geena Davis once she turns butch.
Lastly, I could care less about the critics' opinion. I like a lot of movies critics hate, and hate a lot of movies critics love. But Lost in Translation is everything The Long Kiss Goodnight is not: quiet, unique, insightful, and immersive. I just have trouble seeing how someone could like both kinds of movies, and that's why I wrote that I have stopped thinking of myself as objective. I like my movies, you like yours and there doesn't seem to be any way to reconcile the views. So be it.
Lunatic. -
Alias_MFB — 21 years ago(January 13, 2005 08:31 PM)
Ooooh, wicked.
It's abundantly clear that you don't like
The Long Kiss Goodnight
. But you keep returning to this page to discuss it further. Fascinating.
I didn't like
American Beauty
. And, strange as it seems, I'm not even slightly interested in visiting the IMDb board for
American Beauty
. I'm not interested in discussing the film at all. I'm happy to simply forget it.
Now why don't you just turn your back on
The Long Kiss Goodnight
forever, including all discussions thereof? You've made your points. Aren't you content with that? -
KeithFerguson — 21 years ago(January 16, 2005 07:45 PM)
Because I can't let someone else have the last word!
Well, I don't have to go through too much agony cause I've got that cool thing going where IMDb sends you an email telling you if someone replied to one of your posts. So all I have to do is check my email and there it is! A reply by mfburk!
And I just like talking to people about movies. Especially movies I don't like. There's nothing worse than a board that only has glowing comments on it. These message boards aren't only for people who like the movie, they're also for people who really DISLIKE the movie. You should go to the American Beauty board and spice things up.
Plus, I've gotten into the habit of looking up every movie I see on IMDb as soon as I finish it, and I usually scan the most recent posts to look for something interesting. Of course, after I saw one of the worst action movies I've ever seen, then saw a thread called 'Why did it so bad at the Box Office?!,' how could I resist?
So there are all my reasons. And tell me if you post over in the American Beauty board so we can have another lovely discussion there. -
elandyll — 21 years ago(January 26, 2005 11:18 AM)
Ferg there's still one concept you seem to not have grabbed here.
It's called relativity. Not the Eintein principle, but the one that simply says "it's all relative".
You might want to consider that we are talking here about a "mindless action flick", which -on the premices of a Die Hard clone- actually delivers some pretty good scenes, decent script AND, yes, higher than average dialogues.
Again, it's all relative, -and subjective- and comparing this movie to the Bourne Identity movie(though very clearly TLKG is based "loosely" on the same novel) is like comparing Good morning Vietnam and Platoon. Same subject, two different takes.
I like both. -
KeithFerguson — 21 years ago(January 26, 2005 07:00 PM)
No, no, no. I'm not comparing 'Long Kiss Goodnight' to true masterpieces of film, or even just really good, entertaining movies like 'Bourne Identity.' I am judging it as it is - which, as you say, is a mindless action flick. I won't judge it as a Die Hard clone because once you're that, well, you're that and it's you're own fault. But, sure, I don't mind it being a mindless action flick. Wait, is 'Die Hard' a mindless action flick? Because if it is, I'm all for it. I love 'Die Hard.'
I am saying, no way. Not even for your run of the mill action movie is this a good script and 'yes, higher than average dialogues.' What are we talking about here that is above average? Did you guys see the director's cut or something? Just as a favor, could someone just quote a piece of dialogue that is above average? And I'll try to be fair. I'll think of it as 'above average for an action movie' above average. I will not compare it to any better movie. Just give me an example so I don't think you all are smoking the whacky weed while you're watching crappy movies like this one.
Here, it boils down to one point. Action movies have their place and I respect that place. I like a good action movie now and again. I don't see why action movies have to live up to their stereotype of cheesy and dumb all the time, but I'm willing to overlook most of their flaws just because I like the action. For instance, I really like 'Face/Off' in spite of the terrible dialogue and acting just because of that one shot when they fly off the boat in slow motion. I love that, and I overlook a lot of other things. But not only is 'Long Kiss Goonight' way more uninspired and way more cliched and way more cornball than 'Face/Off,' it also didn't give me as a viewer anything that I couldn't have gotten from another mindless action movie. What would I have missed if I hadn't seen 'Long Kiss Goodnight'? Besides these delightful conversations, of course.
And one more thing. If action movies are 'relatively' worse than every other kind of movie, why do you watch them? -
jps2 — 21 years ago(January 27, 2005 05:17 AM)
And one more thing. If action movies are 'relatively' worse than every other kind of movie, why do you watch them?
For instanse I came from night shift this morning, got a few hours of sleep and watched the movie. When you're wery tired you don't want to look at some long drama, you want something easy and entertaining. That's were action movies come to picture and Long kiss goodnight is to my opinion above average in that area.
I don't watch that much action but compared to few of the last I've seen this one was great. So what are the last ones? Van Helsing, Underworld and Strange days from which the last is the best but not even close to this one.
From Harlin I also liked Cliffhanger and Die Hard 2. -
Roy72 — 21 years ago(February 25, 2005 02:59 AM)
I watch this film now thinking of it more as a comedy/spoof rather than a straight action flick.
I think Jackson is hilarious in this though I think Gena Davis should have played it less seriously. e.g. when she steals the ciggarette from the boy she was funny and the director should have put more comic bits in for her. Instead you just keep waiting for Jackson to show up. -
KeithFerguson — 21 years ago(February 26, 2005 08:06 AM)
Yes, it could have been a parody if it didn't take itself so seriously. And you've got to communicate to me that it's a parody. Like 'Last Action Hero' did that well. Maybe a bit over-the-top, but at least I knew it wasn't serious.
And as for Jackson, I'll just watch 'Pulp Fiction' again. -
k_a_m50 — 20 years ago(May 08, 2005 07:04 PM)
You know fergI must be one of those lunatics you were referring to..I found this film entertaining enough to buy the dvd and do enjoy it as often as I see itI feel that these type of films are pure escapist fare and no more,,and as such, held up admirably and, I dare say, quite funny,,one more thing, the quote is frank in new york and ernest in chicago
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KeithFerguson — 20 years ago(May 09, 2005 04:20 PM)
Well, hey, I am not against escapism. If I want to escape, I always like going to Will Smith - Independence Day, Men in Black, Bad Boys. I just watched Desperado again a couple of days ago. I even like Predator, if you believe it! And I just watched it this year! But all these movies have something that Long Kiss Goodnight lacks - fun. I mean, you might have fun watching it (this is all subjective, right?), but if this is fun for you, then there are hundreds of movies that are much more original and entertaining and less annoying and predictable than this movie. That's all I'm saying. The question was: 'Why did it so bad at the Box Office?!' The answer is: 'There are many movies that deliver everything this movie does, better.' How much was the DVD, by the way? Five bucks or something?
Oh, and refresh my memory of that quote. I assume you're referring to my challenge to come up with a good quote from the movie? Yes, indeed, I have only seen this movie the one time, and any familiarity I seem to have with it comes from the fact I had recently watched it when I started posting on this board. So maybe a little context, please. It sounds okay though 'Frank in New York and Ernest in Chicago.' Can't place it. I get the double meaning. -
jstorch-1 — 19 years ago(January 26, 2007 10:30 PM)
samuel jackson said in the car "we just jumped out of a building" with wild eyed kid like amazementa wink to the audience and acknowledging humor and silly action movie conventionsi love this movie, and it may have flopped because the public didnt buy geena as action hero or presidentpredator and independance day are both better, but the veggie chopping scene to establish her past was charming, and showed a thoughtful approach to writing outside the boxanyway a pretty good action flick and fergie is a pretty good reviewer.enjoy.