This movie is RIDICULOUS. For a couple of reasons
-
blocka — 16 years ago(July 08, 2009 05:23 AM)
Obviously, Metal Monster, you are against socialized medicine, or, more specifically, socialized insurance. The movies scenario is that the boy cannot get the transplant because his parents cant pay. You said, probably correctly, that this wouldnt happen. However, I was saying that you implied that he actually
should
be denied the transplant if he or his parents could not afford it, or had not purchased good-enough insurance. At the very least, you imply that wealthier people are entitled to better health care if they can afford it. With fairly minor exceptions, this is what does not happen in the countries with socialized insurance and frequently happens in the United States (though not in the way depicted in the movie). Sorry if that was unclear. -
Max1974 — 16 years ago(August 15, 2009 09:44 AM)
Yes, that is exactly what happens and it is anything but fair. I haven't seen this movie but a friend of mine suggested it as a good one to watch. I came here to see what was being said about it. I'm just not sure I'm cool with it.
-
hoboboxerjoe — 16 years ago(August 15, 2009 02:38 PM)
A hospital denying a dying child a heart when one is can be given to him is INSANE. It happens, many many children have died needlessly because of lack of health care.
Socialist was such a dirty word for so long some people can't see past it. But maybe democracy mixed with a bit of socialism is just what we need.
Schools, police, firemen, etc. All socialized. Why shouldn't health care be? -
Mr_Blonde_Vic_Vega — 16 years ago(August 15, 2009 04:00 PM)
"Schools, police, firemen, etc. All socialized. Why shouldn't health care be? "
Well I think that you just answered your own question. Look at how inefficiently your examples are ran, do we really want our health care to be held to the same low standards? I know I don't.
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. -
Slt10T-1 — 16 years ago(August 16, 2009 02:22 PM)
This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the national weather service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the Food and Drug Administration.
At the appropriate time as regulated by the US Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issed by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US Postal Service.
After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all it's valuables thanks to the local police department.
I then log on to the internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post on imdb about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right. -
Mr_Blonde_Vic_Vega — 16 years ago(August 16, 2009 04:08 PM)
Nice plagiarism Slt10T-1, but do you actually have any of YOUR OWN thoughts about government run agencies??
Seems like of the examples that you COPY?PASTEd only two of them are actually customer based like health care would be.- Energy. - As we all know energy prices have been sky rocketing, I don't want that for my health care.
- Public Water. - How many times a year do we hear about public water being contaminated?
Now Slt10T-1 would you mind giving me some examples ( preferably your own thoughts this time ) of government agencies which run near as effectively or efficiently as their private company counterparts?
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
-
Slt10T-1 — 16 years ago(August 16, 2009 09:08 PM)
I freely admit that I copied that from an e-mail, but the fact remains that government may cost us in taxes, but, by and large, it delivers. And my water has never been contaminated, nor can I recall any time when that has happened. Now of course we all know that the DMV is pretty wasteful (we all have horror stories about that place), and yes, the redundancy of a lot of government forms (like taxes) can be pretty astounding. However, the fact remains that the U.S. is lagging behind other developed nations in terms of health care, because whenever people like you see the government getting involved, you start foaming at the mouths, citing anecdotal evidence, and basically doing anything and everything to impede progress.
And I hope that when you say energy costs are skyrocketing, you aren't referring to oil, because if you are, that would reveal how astonishingly little you understand the most basic principles of economic, which is to say, supply and demand.
Now, kindly cut the condescension. -
Mr_Blonde_Vic_Vega — 16 years ago(August 17, 2009 08:31 AM)
"And I hope that when you say energy costs are skyrocketing, you aren't referring to oil, because if you are, that would reveal how astonishingly little you understand the most basic principles of economic, which is to say, supply and demand."
If you believe that the government has no control over oil prices then I believe that YOU are the one who doesn't understand.
Also you did not answer my question - What government run agency runs near as efficiently or effectively as it's private company counterpart? If you can not name at least several then your whole argument is void and you should re-evaluate your whole stance on the issue.
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. -
saint_cyr_g — 14 years ago(November 13, 2011 12:05 PM)
Excellent post Slt10-1!
I love how all these conservatives/tea baggers rant and rave about big government, yet are all their with their hands out to receive the services that benefit them. It is all well and good to use socialized medicine as a dirty word until you or someone you love is refused medical care. Its fine when you have a job and are covered. What happens when your employer decides to move your job to China in order to improve their already healthy profits. Are you then to be called a "freeloader" after working your whole life, and are now in need? It really is amazing how quickly these people will change their minds when it is their child that is dying because money and big business come before the lives of fellow citizens.
It boggles my mind how these people continue to blindly cling to ideals and politicians who's loyality is bought and paid for by greedy corporations. The very same corporations who continue to rape them and their children's futures. How one can be so willing to give their vote and loyalty to people and policies which goes against their own interests is astounding. -
met76 — 12 years ago(November 27, 2013 01:04 PM)
OP is right. Free health care exists only in socialist and communist countries. In U.S.A. heart transplantation cost about 70.000 $ and this m.f. John Q wants a free ride.
I would want to hear what this guy had to say to a sick kid who was gonna die because the parents couldn't afford the surgery.
"I'm really sorry my boy but your parents are too poor so you'll have to die. Hey, it's your fault you weren't born into a richer family." -
met76 — 12 years ago(November 27, 2013 01:10 PM)
OP is right. Free health care exists only in socialist and communist countries. In U.S.A. heart transplantation cost about 70.000 $ and this m.f. John Q wants a free ride.
I would want to hear what this guy had to say to a sick kid who was gonna die because the parents couldn't afford the surgery in America.
"I'm really sorry my boy but your parents are too poor for the transplantation so you'll have to die. Bad luck you weren't born into a richer family."
It really amazes me that some Americans talk about how great America and Americans are, yet they seem to believe one of their fellow countrymen deserves to die because he can't afford the necessary treatment. All because of their utter and extreme hate against anything "socialist". -
Mic21 — 15 years ago(September 28, 2010 01:13 AM)
Socialized medicine is a must; it's just not fair to let people die and deny an operation just because they are poor
In germany, there is a law that you HAVE to have an health insurance, you pay ~15% of your wage for health insurance (wage level doesn't matter as long as its over 400/ ~540$), family members can be insured (kids until ~21) for free, the unemployed get free health care, self-employed have to pay upwards of 190$ per month for health insurance
So the rich people pay for poor, but it's not THAT much
Organ transplants have a very very long waiting time in Germany, because there are not enough donors, but when the transplant is urgent and a donor is finally found, the insurance company pays for it (save for very low fees for hospitals stay and meds)
I think in Germany, they most likely they would have discovered the heart condition before, because kid's medical checkups are more thorough and depend very little on parent's income. Otherwise he would have to wait upwards of 300 days for a transplant
-
Impressive_Bicycle_Girl — 15 years ago(October 01, 2010 10:25 PM)
"Socialized medicine is a must; it's just not fair to let people die and deny an operation just because they are poor"
So by that logic, its not fair to let people educate their children at second rate public schools, live in second rate neighborhoods, not get a college degree, work for minimum wage and steal to eat.just because they are poor.
What planet are you from?!?! If you don't have money in this world, you're entitled to nothing.
http://www.youtube.com/user/alexsgirl74 -
Mic21 — 15 years ago(October 03, 2010 03:28 AM)
What an ignorant response apparently for you denying someone medical treatment is the same as going to a public school or living in a second rate neighborhood?!
Life threating situation versus life quality ?
"let people educate their children at second rate public schools, live in second rate neighborhoods, not get a college degree, work for minimum wage and steal to eat.just because they are poor. "
In a social market economy (all northern and most western european countries), those problems exist much less:- Nobody - who is living legally in the country ! - has to steal or beg to eat because of welfare money (and local food banks)
- If you are working minimum wage you can get extra money from the government to make ends meet
- Free Public schools can be nearly as good as private schools (higher education budget from government I guess)
- College/university is free in some states or you can get an interest free loan
-Second rate neighborhoods are bad but still the crime rate (esp. murders) is not nearly as high as in the States (and I believe the high crime rate is mainly caused by weapon laws and very bad living conditions of the lower class, extreme poverty leads to crime and violence)
Considering the bad living conditions of the lower class ,it is really hard to believe the USA is one of the richest countries (#7) in the world
Germany is only #18 but the situation of poor people is much better (still bad considering the average standard of living here)
"What planet are you from?!?! If you don't have money in this world, you're entitled to nothing. "
So "Survival of the fittest" only?! This is unacceptable in a modern, rich country ! Do you not have any social awareness at all?
Many people who are poor can't help it, they grew up in families where they didn't have a chance. Not everybody has the chance to get a good job that acutally pays enough to make ends meet, so it is our duty as citizens to help them ! (even if indirectly by taxes)
-
Impressive_Bicycle_Girl — 15 years ago(October 03, 2010 06:43 AM)
Apparently, since you live in Germany, you have no idea how things in the States work. It must be nice to have someone else (socialized medicine) foot the bill for your medical needs. We don't have handouts like that in the States. Everyone must work to get what they need.
And in essence, denying someone medical treatment falls into the EXACT same category of living in sub par neighborhoods and attending sub par schools. Are you that socially ignorant that you've never heard of school shootings or drive-by shootings?
Since I have lived in Europe, I'm well aware of the freebies of living in a socialized democracybut thanks for trying to pretend you're telling me something I don't already know
Thanks for informing me about the state of immigrants not needing to beg, because I see people of all races and backgrounds panhandling for money on the streets of Athens EVERY FRICKEN' DAY OF THE WEEK. Its got nothing to do with their residency statusit was to do with them not being able to work due to language barriers and not being able to secure that "extra money" from the government. Does Germany just go around giving money to the needy and poor? That's not the way it works here. Even if you qualify for assitance, the red tape is a long, drawn out process, many people just don't go through the trouble of applying only to be denied because of some beaucratic loophole.
Please don't tell me how great the educational system is because its free. You know the saying"you get what you pay for"? Well when education becomes "free", quality of that education goes right out the window.
But heyat least its free, right? Who cares if you learn that 2+2=5.
So to answer your question,I'm more socially aware than you'd like to think.
Absolutely. "Survival of the fittest" (or in this case, the richest) mentality is a totally unacceptable attitude for ANY country, not just a rich, modern one.
And if YOU think the U.S. is a rich country, you need to brush up on your current events. But that's the way the world works. No one is about to lend a helping hand to the less fortunate just because its the moral thing to do.
We don't live in a Charles Dickens' novel. This is the real worldthis is how it is. Welcome to reality
http://www.youtube.com/user/alexsgirl74 -
jejozi — 14 years ago(July 17, 2011 12:45 PM)
"No one is about to lend a helping hand to the less fortunate just because its the moral thing to do."
Really? Isn't helping the less fortunate one of the basic tenets of the christian church? According to the religious right, anti-gay marriage crowd we're a judeo-christian nation. So, since you're obviously not a religious person, you and your kind are just selfish baysterds? Because everyone knows you got to where you are with no help from anyone, right?
The mantra for the right; "I got mine, screw everybody else.", "More, Me, Now."
This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here. -
Impressive_Bicycle_Girl — 14 years ago(July 18, 2011 01:35 AM)
First of all, please stop following me around the IMDB boards. You're behaving like a stalker. Don't you have better things to do with your time?
Secondly, I never said I wasn't a Christian OR a religious person. YOU CAME ALONG and made THAT ASSumption and have made a fool of yourself on a public forum.
Who are "me and my kind" exactly? It sounds like you've got a bit of a political worm squirming up your ass and went and got your granny panties all in a bunch over nothing. I'm not about mudslinging between political parties. They're ALL the same. Out to keep livin' large at the little man's expense. That goes for the right, left, teabaggers, and whatever else you want to call them. ALL ARE CROOKS! I DO NOT align myself with political puppets or their pathetic propoganda. I won't go making any assumptions about YOU, your political or religious beliefs based on your posts so as to spare myself the embarrassment you didn't have enough sense to avoid.
Sounds as if you've led a hard life and have chosen to take it out on someone who tells it like it is. Write your congressman instead. Stalking me on the IMDB boards isn't going to change anything.little lost sheep.
http://www.youtube.com/user/alexsgirl74 -
jejozi — 14 years ago(July 19, 2011 06:39 PM)
Oh, but I so wanted to live on the madonna board, too. Potkettle.black
Yes, you and your kind. People do the right thing everyday because it's the moral thing to do. Because ya'll don't live that way doesn't mean others don't.
And I'm not stalking you, just was curious if you were that big of an a$$ or were just having a bad day. 'twas the former. Fascinating.
This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.